Is anyone NOT getting the vaccine?

[JC2021]

Anyone on here choosing not to receive the covid-19 vaccine?

I am undecided, but resistant.

My reasons; you can still become infected and spread the virus. How sick you might become would depend on your immunity, your age/health.

So, in my mind the only good the vaccine 'may' do (no guarantees) is prevent you getting very ill. Although, even this is still not guaranteed.

So the vaccine may reduce the change of you becoming really ill.

Fully vaccinated people can still spread the virus unknowingly to others, the same as unvaccinated.

Views?

@canigooutyet

I would rather provide all the information I have so that people can make an informed decision, rather than guilt tripping people into having something they personally might not want.

As someone who is vulnerable and not just to this, it my job to protect me. If it was everyone else that should protect me and others, then more would have been done decades ago about sending children into school ill, about the martyrs going to work, following nhs guidance when it comes to temperatures and more.

There is also some nasty shit around that has no vaccine, or not routinely vaccinated against in the UK. To date I have had more hospitalisations due to pertussis than I have had for other respiratory stuff I have. THe vaccine isn't advised in the UK for adults but is in other parts of the world. IF I was going to start lecturing and guilt tripping people it would be about that tbph.

Pertussis is routinely vaccinated against.

Brilliant post @waterlego

Well good for you.
This is the reason why I don't really post about any of the multitude of conditions I have because there is always someone that comes along and says well I've had the vaccine, can wear the mask, can do this that and the other.

I also didn't group anyone, I said my This is one of the reasons why my consultants advised against it btw. Once they have this info, the vaccines that are fine for allergies will be considered.

@canigooutyet

Well good for you. This is the reason why I don't really post about any of the multitude of conditions I have because there is always someone that comes along and says well I've had the vaccine, can wear the mask, can do this that and the other.

I also didn't group anyone, I said my This is one of the reasons why my consultants advised against it btw. Once they have this info, the vaccines that are fine for allergies will be considered.

And I've never said that literally 100% of people - no exceptions, not even one person - should be having the vaccine, because of course there are (rare) genuine reasons. Rare. I don't think it's wrong to have concerns or want more information - upthread I have spoken with someone in exactly that position.

But it's important not to overstate the risks, because the vaccines are still incredibly safe, for virtually everyone.

Yes for young children and pregnancy.
It's not routinely offered to everyone.. Sorry though I had put in except for pregnancy.

www.fitfortravel.nhs.uk/advice/disease-prevention-advice/whooping-cough-pertussis

Pertussis is whooping cough, so most people in the UK will be vaccinated against it. I gather it's a very nasty illness.

THe vaccination lasts around 10 years according to NHS hence why even though you may have had the various injections as a baby it's offered in all pregnancies, or up until the baby is a year old iirc.

It is very nasty for adults and babies.

Obviously assuming she's not exempt due to whatever health reasons discussed with their hcps.

I am double-jabbed. At both appointments the first question on each occasion was about allergies. It was safe to proceed and I had literally no side effects at all. I'm a bit of a needle phobic and the staff were kind and considerate and it was so quick it was over before I knew it.

For anyone considering whether or not to get vaccinated this is the view from America;

The Delta variant is a grave danger to the unvaccinated

[quote IHTC]@Abraxan But the risk is still there is my point.[/quote]
But much lower risk if fully vaccinated than unvaccinated. Obviously having a much reduced risk is better overall for everyone concerned.

Seeing as no vaccine or medication is ever 100% effective it's unrealistic to expect the Covid vaccine to be.

We can't eliminate risk but we can reduce it significantly.

We can't eliminate risk but we can reduce it significantly.

I'm baffled why people struggle to understand this.

I'm not getting it because the scientists have lied to us so much throughout this pandemic I just don't trust anything they say now.

Also, Vallance has big money invested in the vaccines. The more people get jabbed, the more profit he makes. A little fact he conveniently "forgot" to mention when recommending we go get our jabs.

@PhasedRay

I'm not getting it because the scientists have lied to us so much throughout this pandemic I just don't trust anything they say now.

Also, Vallance has big money invested in the vaccines. The more people get jabbed, the more profit he makes. A little fact he conveniently "forgot" to mention when recommending we go get our jabs.

This is untrue from start to finish.

"The scientists have lied to us"; you mean globally the millions of scientists, doctors and nurses who've seen covid and vaccines are all in on a conspiracy. That's what, 100m or so people globally. All in a tightly controlled conspiracy, trying to get you to have a jab for their dark motives. Why are you falling for these lies you're being fed? Do you really not know a single scientist, doctor or nurse? Surely a quick head shake gets you enough sense to see how utterly insane this suggestion is!

Vallance has investment in GSK, which isn't one of the pharma companies who had a successful vaccine being used. The UK invested in many options, to try to ensure that whichever solution worked the UK could vaccinate its people. Of course he invests in pharma, that's his area of expertise. I only invest in companies that I know about too, for investment in areas you know nothing about you'd use a fund manager who is an expert.

@PhasedRay

I'm not getting it because the scientists have lied to us so much throughout this pandemic I just don't trust anything they say now.

Also, Vallance has big money invested in the vaccines. The more people get jabbed, the more profit he makes. A little fact he conveniently "forgot" to mention when recommending we go get our jabs.

@PhasedRay

I'm not getting it because the scientists have lied to us so much throughout this pandemic I just don't trust anything they say now.

Also, Vallance has big money invested in the vaccines. The more people get jabbed, the more profit he makes. A little fact he conveniently "forgot" to mention when recommending we go get our jabs.

My mum says this. She forgets that she never trusted scientists ever because she didn't understand it, so it's not really an informed decision.

@PhasedRay

I'm not getting it because the scientists have lied to us so much throughout this pandemic I just don't trust anything they say now.

Also, Vallance has big money invested in the vaccines. The more people get jabbed, the more profit he makes. A little fact he conveniently "forgot" to mention when recommending we go get our jabs.

How sad that people are putting themselves and other people at risk through believing such utter twaddle.

There certainly are investors everywhere making profits from vaccines. But the reason they are able to do this, as country after country puts in huge orders to vaccinate their populations, is because these vaccines work.

@PhasedRay

I'm not getting it because the scientists have lied to us so much throughout this pandemic I just don't trust anything they say now.

Also, Vallance has big money invested in the vaccines. The more people get jabbed, the more profit he makes. A little fact he conveniently "forgot" to mention when recommending we go get our jabs.

Like you conveniently 'forgot' to mention that GSK isn't actually behind any of the vaccines currently in use?

Or are you just not very well informed?

www.al.com/news/2021/07/im-sorry-but-its-too-late-alabama-doctor-on-treating-unvaccinated-dying-covid-patients.html

Dr. Brytney Cobia said Monday that all but one of her COVID patients in Alabama did not receive the vaccine. The vaccinated patient, she said, just needed a little oxygen and is expected to fully recover. Some of the others are dying.

“I’m admitting young healthy people to the hospital with very serious COVID infections,” wrote Cobia, a hospitalist at Grandview Medical Center in Birmingham, in an emotional Facebook post Sunday. “One of the last things they do before they’re intubated is beg me for the vaccine. I hold their hand and tell them that I’m sorry, but it’s too late.”

I'm increasingly of the opinion that a large section of the population in both the US and the UK has somehow wafted through 10+ years of compulsory education without absorbing basic scientific concepts and without learning how to think critically, or even why that matters. Also, somehow not grasping that until scientists and doctors developed antibiotics and vaccinations, young, healthy people died every day from what are now entirely preventable diseases and infections. It's as if they want to be stupid. Why?

I am cringing for PhasedRay.

@Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g

www.al.com/news/2021/07/im-sorry-but-its-too-late-alabama-doctor-on-treating-unvaccinated-dying-covid-patients.html

Dr. Brytney Cobia said Monday that all but one of her COVID patients in Alabama did not receive the vaccine. The vaccinated patient, she said, just needed a little oxygen and is expected to fully recover. Some of the others are dying.

“I’m admitting young healthy people to the hospital with very serious COVID infections,” wrote Cobia, a hospitalist at Grandview Medical Center in Birmingham, in an emotional Facebook post Sunday. “One of the last things they do before they’re intubated is beg me for the vaccine. I hold their hand and tell them that I’m sorry, but it’s too late.”

I'm increasingly of the opinion that a large section of the population in both the US and the UK has somehow wafted through 10+ years of compulsory education without absorbing basic scientific concepts and without learning how to think critically, or even why that matters. Also, somehow not grasping that until scientists and doctors developed antibiotics and vaccinations, young, healthy people died every day from what are now entirely preventable diseases and infections. It's as if they want to be stupid. Why?

I think the really sad bit, Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g, is that often they mistake uncritically absorbing conspiracy theories for being critical thinkers and go around congratulating themselves on not being like the rest of us sheeple.

It doesn’t occur to them that a lot of people who know more than they do about science are in fact not just being passively led by government propaganda but looking critically at the evidence, weighing it up and deciding to have the vaccine.

@Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g

www.al.com/news/2021/07/im-sorry-but-its-too-late-alabama-doctor-on-treating-unvaccinated-dying-covid-patients.html

Dr. Brytney Cobia said Monday that all but one of her COVID patients in Alabama did not receive the vaccine. The vaccinated patient, she said, just needed a little oxygen and is expected to fully recover. Some of the others are dying.

“I’m admitting young healthy people to the hospital with very serious COVID infections,” wrote Cobia, a hospitalist at Grandview Medical Center in Birmingham, in an emotional Facebook post Sunday. “One of the last things they do before they’re intubated is beg me for the vaccine. I hold their hand and tell them that I’m sorry, but it’s too late.”

I'm increasingly of the opinion that a large section of the population in both the US and the UK has somehow wafted through 10+ years of compulsory education without absorbing basic scientific concepts and without learning how to think critically, or even why that matters. Also, somehow not grasping that until scientists and doctors developed antibiotics and vaccinations, young, healthy people died every day from what are now entirely preventable diseases and infections. It's as if they want to be stupid. Why?

I increasingly think that there is a strong psychological driver in some people to believe they are smarter than most people, and in an increasingly connected world to show that they are smarter than most people.

We already know that in a lot of Western countries, the majority of people think they are above average intelligence, so it's a fairly small leap to have a smaller group who have a belief - and probably an underlying need - to be smarter than not just average, but than almost everyone.

I mean, definitionally it's impossible for large numbers of us to be smarter than most people, but I don't think that changes the imperative some people feel in that direction. I suspect it's always existed - you see it in managers who can't bear to be wrong or have staff who suggest improvements they didn't think of themselves, parents who can't bear for their adult kids to be right or set a direction - but the modern world makes it easier for this group to connect with each other and to have platforms to show their brilliance (which doesn't exist without demonstrating that the majority are idiots).

You're right that I don't think critical thinking skills are well taught in the majority of schools where there is so much about regurgitating information and passing exams - look at the thread this week where a teacher is in trouble for having his own opinion and encouraging his class to argue in a structured, evidence-based way about controversial issues. In the UK there is also a cultural bias against maths - it's seen as 'really hard' and maths skills tend to be low. This then really, really affects people's ability to deal with and understand statistics and numerical data which is increasingly important in a data-driven world.

"Feeling" that someone has shares in a different company to the one they have shares in... That's really weird TBH. Feelings should be reserved for sensations and opinions, non used on matters of fact to warp them into a lie.

You need to think critically about the sources of information you have and use; don't fall into the traps set by sources who do not have your interests at heart. www.bmj.com/company/newsroom/foreign-disinformation-social-media-campaigns-linked-to-falling-vaccination-rates/.

@Ludovici

(n/c) I feel the same as PhasedRay and also feeling bullied and pressured. I won't be having it.

PhasedRay is spreading false information though. Don't be like PhasedRay.

@Ludovici

(n/c) I feel the same as PhasedRay and also feeling bullied and pressured. I won't be having it.

I'm sorry you're feeling bullied and pressured. I won't do that, but I'm really curious to know which scientists you feel lied? I haven't been super impressed with the whole scientific community (given the spectrum of views and the increasingly polarised stances some have taken on the appropriate public policy responses to the science), but I really am trying to understand what underpins people's hesitancy.

@Ludovici... let's say I ask you what the weather is like round yours, and you look out the window and say it looks great, so I head over there the next day and it's raining.

Does that mean you've lied to me? Or does it mean you told the truth based on what things were like at the time, and then circumstances changed?