Is anyone NOT getting the vaccine?

[JC2021]

Anyone on here choosing not to receive the covid-19 vaccine?

I am undecided, but resistant.

My reasons; you can still become infected and spread the virus. How sick you might become would depend on your immunity, your age/health.

So, in my mind the only good the vaccine 'may' do (no guarantees) is prevent you getting very ill. Although, even this is still not guaranteed.

So the vaccine may reduce the change of you becoming really ill.

Fully vaccinated people can still spread the virus unknowingly to others, the same as unvaccinated.

Views?

@heyhohi
do you have a source for your very blurry graphs?
www.webmd.com/vaccines/covid-19-vaccine/news/20210629/almost-all-us-covid-19-deaths-now-in-the-unvaccinated
@bigvig
The science is not divided about vaccines. If you read any reputable scientific journal there's absolutely no debate. If you have a link to a peer reviewed article that says otherwise, please share.
All virus mutate. That's why vaccines need to be adapted periodically.
Vaccines and antibiotics have saved millions of lives. I can't believe we have to discuss this.
It's your right not to get vaccinated. Your decision is damaging other people though. That's the choice you are making.

God these threads get tedious. Same old anti-vax script. I know it's wrong of me, but I do wish MNHQ would start zapping all these threads, they are pointless as no anti-vaxxer will ever change their minds.

And so the bullying, coercion, preaching and belittling continues .........
and yet another thread is taken over by the sanctimonious, "we know better than you" brigade.

Good luck to you all and your children with your trial drugs.

@Tiari

And you're not preaching or belittling at all, are you *@CeeceeBloomindale*?

No I'm presenting an opposing view. You do you. The vast majority of the population have chosen to do the opposite to you though, you've in an increasing minority. I am still yet to read one valid reason to not be vaccinated and anyone anti covid vaccine seems to have made it their life mission to persuade others from getting it to. Many are still unsure and I stand by my statement that a balance discussion is a good thing to help them reach their own conclusions. However statistics and science are firmly on the side of those vaccinating.

[quote berrylands]@heyhohi
do you have a source for your very blurry graphs?
www.webmd.com/vaccines/covid-19-vaccine/news/20210629/almost-all-us-covid-19-deaths-now-in-the-unvaccinated
@bigvig
The science is not divided about vaccines. If you read any reputable scientific journal there's absolutely no debate. If you have a link to a peer reviewed article that says otherwise, please share.
All virus mutate. That's why vaccines need to be adapted periodically.
Vaccines and antibiotics have saved millions of lives. I can't believe we have to discuss this.
It's your right not to get vaccinated. Your decision is damaging other people though. That's the choice you are making.[/quote]
Page 14
assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1001354/Variants_of_Concern_VOC_Technical_Briefing_17.pdf

@ivykaty44

berrylands You avoided answering the question with a

Well everything has side effects

Can you actually answer the question and state which vaccination in history has had side effects?

All of them. So what? "Any vaccine can cause side effects. For the most part these are minor (for example, a sore arm or low-grade fever) and go away within a few days. Listed below are vaccines licensed in the United States and side effects that have been associated with each of them. This information is copied directly from CDC’s Vaccine Information Statements (VISs), which in turn are derived from the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices (ACIP) recommendations for each vaccine." www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/side-effects.htm

@Heyhohi - Vaccines don't promise eternal life, they create a raft of antibodies to help the body fight infection. Did you think nobody in their 80s or with cancer would die or be hospitalised after being vaccinated? At one point groups 1-9 made up 99% of all deaths from covid, groups 1-4 was 88%. That's dropped significantly with vaccines, a sign of masses of lives being saved. Those who are more frail, the antibodies might not be enough, that's why no vaccine has 100% efficacy; when they say 95% effective that means 5% still get unwell. It's great for the 95% that they don't get unwell, but there is still concern for those 5%. That's why younger people need to take the jab, not just for their own health but to reduce transmission so that those with weaker immune systems are less likely to catch covid and then die from it.

Vaccines and antibiotics have saved millions of lives. I can't believe we have to discuss this.
It's your right not to get vaccinated. Your decision is damaging other people though. That's the choice you are making.

This! Just this.

Musmerian
The stupidity makes my head hurt.

Agree - its essentially an IQ test
Have it or don't have it but bore off
4 pregnant women on ITU in our hospital today (unvaccinated)

Yes, everything is of a risk but no other vaccines went through a mass clinical trials like current ones, this is the difference. The difference is that a new technology - Mrna - hasn’t been trialed in humans on this level prior to 2021. Yes it was developed from 70-80s but I’m talking about clinical trials here

Whete in the document is the graph in your second image from? I've seen the graph from the first image and it seems to suggest that serious illness is higher amongst the unvaccinated. Where is your second image from? Which page?

@Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g

www.bbc.co.uk/news/stories-57866661

First part of the article:

As in many other hospitals, the number of patients being treated for Covid-19 in Bradford Royal Infirmary is sharply rising. About half of them had chosen not to be vaccinated, says Dr John Wright - which many now deeply regret.

"I was offered the vaccine, but I was arrogant," says Faisal Bashir, a super-fit 54-year-old.

"I was going to the gym, cycling, walking and running. Given that I was strong and healthy I didn't think I needed it. That also meant that if it turned out not to be safe I wouldn't have taken any risks.

"But the truth was that I couldn't avoid the virus. It still got me. I don't know how or where."

Faisal, who was discharged on Wednesday after a week in hospital receiving oxygen, is keen to warn others not to make his mistake.

"What I've experienced in hospital - the care and expertise - humbles me," he says.

"People are filling the hospitals by taking chances and it's wrong. I feel terrible. I feel so bad about it and I hope by speaking out it helps others avoid this."

Great article. Shame stories like these still don't convince people they should get vaccinated. Its only when they end up in hospital dying or seriously ill that they wish they had had the vaccine.

@Tiari

And so the bullying, coercion, preaching and belittling continues ......... and yet another thread is taken over by the sanctimonious, "we know better than you" brigade.

Good luck to you all and your children with your trial drugs.

I wish I could meet you and others who think llike you because I'm purely going mad atm due to the pressure I'm under to get vaccinated.

I can't see my family unless I get vaccinated but the thought of something happening to me and my 4 year old being left alone is really scaring me. I'm torn. Don't want the trial drug.... don't want it.... im being forced to have it though. I call this modern fascism!

@squiglet111 do you still believe anything that is being said on bbc???! Are people still watching this one sided propaganda channel?
Brains anyone?

@foxandbee

God these threads get tedious. Same old anti-vax script. I know it's wrong of me, but I do wish MNHQ would start zapping all these threads, they are pointless as no anti-vaxxer will ever change their minds.

This.

I, and I'm sure many others, feel obliged to post to stop the misinformation, but I would love it if we didn't have to do this every day. It's getting us nowhere.

I've had it as I'm not a tin hat science denier.
The same people who voted for brexit are the people not having it.
Hard of thinking.

Agreed knitting
Should not be spreading misinformation.

@tiari of course the vaccinated are anxious. Anxious that so many are choosing not to have the vaccine and are ending up in hospitals very sick and dying. Anxious that the nhs might be overwhelmed again. Anxious that people with serious illnesses might get their appointments/treatments/operations pushed back again because hospitals are full of anti vaxxers seriously ill with covid because they thought they knew better. Anxious about another lockdown to protect the unvaxxed ..... Need I go on?

@knittingaddict

Whete in the document is the graph in your second image from? I've seen the graph from the first image and it seems to suggest that serious illness is higher amongst the unvaccinated. Where is your second image from? Which page?

It’s from one of this technical brief papers, hust no time to look for it at the moment

@Heyhohi
You are referring to a table where it says out of 107 deaths in over 50s, 38 were unvaccinated. Hence the majority of the deaths were among vaccinated people.
Now, if 100% of the over 50s were vaccinated, you would expect all the deaths to be among vaccinated people.
So, if 90% are vaccinated: Imagine there are 10 cases. You would expect 9 cases in vaccinated and one case unvaccinated (just because there are more vaccinated than unvaccinated, assuming the risk of infection remains the same). If the mortality is 100% in unvaccinated and only 30% in vaccinated, you would expect the one unvaccinated to die, and 3 of the unvaccinated to die. Then you would publish "from the four deaths, 3 were unvaccinated an only one vaccinated" as proof that the vaccine is useless, when in fact it saved six people from death.
90% of over 50s are vaccinated in England, so you need to consider this when reading this table.
Does this make sense?

[quote squiglet111]@tiari of course the vaccinated are anxious. Anxious that so many are choosing not to have the vaccine and are ending up in hospitals very sick and dying. Anxious that the nhs might be overwhelmed again. Anxious that people with serious illnesses might get their appointments/treatments/operations pushed back again because hospitals are full of anti vaxxers seriously ill with covid because they thought they knew better. Anxious about another lockdown to protect the unvaxxed ..... Need I go on? [/quote]
You are thinking way too much, stress isn’t helpful for immune system. Nhs always been overwhelmed, yes i wasn’t born in the UK, but my children were abs I have paid taxes into the system for 20 years so have a right to say - no other country has copied NHS as a system for their public health, so stop worrying, not good for you

[quote berrylands]@Heyhohi
You are referring to a table where it says out of 107 deaths in over 50s, 38 were unvaccinated. Hence the majority of the deaths were among vaccinated people.
Now, if 100% of the over 50s were vaccinated, you would expect all the deaths to be among vaccinated people.
So, if 90% are vaccinated: Imagine there are 10 cases. You would expect 9 cases in vaccinated and one case unvaccinated (just because there are more vaccinated than unvaccinated, assuming the risk of infection remains the same). If the mortality is 100% in unvaccinated and only 30% in vaccinated, you would expect the one unvaccinated to die, and 3 of the unvaccinated to die. Then you would publish "from the four deaths, 3 were unvaccinated an only one vaccinated" as proof that the vaccine is useless, when in fact it saved six people from death.
90% of over 50s are vaccinated in England, so you need to consider this when reading this table.
Does this make sense?[/quote]
It does! Thank you for taking your time, would be good if they did the same analysis of 120k who died with covid, wouldn’t it?

Good luck to you all and your children with your trial drugs

We don't need luck as the odds that we will survive covid are in our favour thanks to the vaccine. It's the "I'll take my chances" mob that need the luck.

[quote berrylands]@Heyhohi
You are referring to a table where it says out of 107 deaths in over 50s, 38 were unvaccinated. Hence the majority of the deaths were among vaccinated people.
Now, if 100% of the over 50s were vaccinated, you would expect all the deaths to be among vaccinated people.
So, if 90% are vaccinated: Imagine there are 10 cases. You would expect 9 cases in vaccinated and one case unvaccinated (just because there are more vaccinated than unvaccinated, assuming the risk of infection remains the same). If the mortality is 100% in unvaccinated and only 30% in vaccinated, you would expect the one unvaccinated to die, and 3 of the unvaccinated to die. Then you would publish "from the four deaths, 3 were unvaccinated an only one vaccinated" as proof that the vaccine is useless, when in fact it saved six people from death.
90% of over 50s are vaccinated in England, so you need to consider this when reading this table.
Does this make sense?[/quote]
obviously I'm asleep. I'm sorry
it should read
"If the mortality is 100% in unvaccinated and only 30% in vaccinated, you would expect the one unvaccinated to die, and 3 of the vaccinated to die. Then you would publish "from the four deaths, 3 were vaccinated an only one unvaccinated" as proof that the vaccine is useless, when in fact it saved six people from death.
90% of over 50s are vaccinated in England, so you need to consider this when reading this table."

@covi
Sorry to hear you're under so much pressure. It's such a difficult choice to make.
Please research as much as you possibly can and consider the pros and cons for your particular situation.
But I also believe It's a case of following your gut instinct and that's where I am at the moment. No doubt I'll be taken the piss out of for gut instinct being part of my decision
Good luck with whatever decision you make