96 dead today...

[Homeontherangeuk]

But Boris knows what he's doing...

@Egghead68

Delta is too transmissible to get herd immunity unless we get all children vaccinated which isn't on the agenda

That’s right. We would need about 98% of the population vaccinated which includes children. This could be put on the agenda if there was the political will. Most countries are vaccinating at least older children.

I’m not, by the way, necessarily advocating this, just putting it forward as an option.

It's not an option in our society, because we don't force people to be vaccinated against their will, especially not children. The best hope is around 90% uptake in adults. That is a very good rate for a free society. It's unlikely that uptake would reach anywhere near that rate if it were opened to all 12- 18 year olds and probably wouldn't add much to herd immunity. Vaccinating under 12s is out of the question at the moment.

@Blessex

Look. For all those who want to live a life locked down and masked then please go ahead. For the rest of us who have done this for 18 months and are now double jabbed, we are through with it. My parents want to spend their last few years playing with their grandchildren. Young adults want to find their soulmates and party. Kids need education and social skills. Everyone needs company and hugs. Covid is shit yes. But now we are vaccinated there is little else we can do. Cases will rise and will keep rising. But this virus is here to stay. So those who want to live a life of lockdown then carry on. For those who want to start living again in what is already a short life - then please let them.

All of this as well!

Unfortunately I think all of us have spent our entire lives lulled into the false illusion that we are invincible/can mostly always be cured of serious illness/expect to live to 90. The reality is that life has always been with risk and danger, our health and wellbeing has always been on a knife edge - we are just acutely aware of it now because of everything we've been through the past 18months. I think a lot of people expected the vaccines to snuff out covid completely, which they were never going to do.

Personally, I'd rather enjoy the time I have on this crazy planet rather and make the most of what I have right now rather than stand on my own in that meadow waiting for covid to go away...

Could you please provide us with an option that doesn't include an exit wave over the winter, doesn't ruin our economy and mental health further

At least wait until vulnérable children are given some sort of protection, either offered the present vaccines, or a safer one is developed.

@Blessex

Look. For all those who want to live a life locked down and masked then please go ahead. For the rest of us who have done this for 18 months and are now double jabbed, we are through with it. My parents want to spend their last few years playing with their grandchildren. Young adults want to find their soulmates and party. Kids need education and social skills. Everyone needs company and hugs. Covid is shit yes. But now we are vaccinated there is little else we can do. Cases will rise and will keep rising. But this virus is here to stay. So those who want to live a life of lockdown then carry on. For those who want to start living again in what is already a short life - then please let them.

But now we are vaccinated there is little else we can do

I think the issue that some will point out is that only 53% of the population are double jabbed and post 2 weeks from the last vaccination

People in their 30s (and 20s) aren't getting a second jab until August/September, but are expected to go out to work, go on public transport etc, without any mitigations, whilst cases skyrocket.

No idea why they aren't allowing people to get their 2nd jab early given the situation and that rates of uptake are slowing

@PickleAF

I don't understand this idea people have that Boris alone is making all of these decisions off the top of his head? he's advised by panels of scientists and advisors and the hundreds of people work on providing the data that goes into these decisions. Yes people have died with (not always of!) covid, but the last time cases were this high thousands were dying.

I find this so odd too..

And yet, Flowerlane, stock markets are tumbling around the world because of the rise of cases.

I clicked on the link you posted. This was at the top of the page:

'this isn’t the time to panic and I would be surprised if we see too strong a reaction in the markets. We’re only seeing a very minor pullback at this stage and that’s perfectly healthy. Policy makers have plenty of time to determine the risk that inflation poses and what, if any, the response should be'

They aren't tumbling. There have been a few bumps but things aren't in freefall.

People die everyday. Many people die of viruses (there’s always a virus that’s overwhelming the NHS every single year). What’s your alternative? Stay cooped up in our homes wearing masks forever?

60% of people being admitted to hospital with covid have been double jabbed.

People’s mental health has deteriorated. The economy has gone to shit. Let’s just live our lives.

"It's either get it out the way now or spread it over months. The NHS is very unlikely to be overwhelmed if we do it now so there is no sense I delaying."

If you look at the figures today, there was a death in each bracket of 20s, 30s, 40s and 50s (and then more as ages go up). I think it's the third day running of having someone in their thirties die.

If you follow this way of thinking, then it's saying that a person with potentially a lot of life to live is going to die if they get it, so they might as well die now, rather than have another 6 months of life - or rather than possibly not die because in another 6 months we could have vaccinated more people?

It's being repeated everywhere at the moment, that we just need to get used to the deaths, and we don't have this attitude for anything else. We try to extend life where we can, we try to avoid excess deaths.

Just another couple of months of vaccinating could mean the difference between life and death for thousands and thousands of people.

My heart was in my mouth seeing 96 today. It made me feel sick. I think we just have to adjust though. The numbers aren't going to rise and rise forever, we just have to ride this period out and trust in the vaccines which are working so well. People are going to keep dying. Largely they will be very old, frail people. Life needs to move on now. I am still wearing a mask and being cautious, I'm happy to do things like that and think of people who are that bit more vulnerable but beyond that we need to hold our nerve and open up as planned. Life is too short to stay locked up in our houses. I can't do that anymore.

"What’s your alternative? Stay cooped up in our homes wearing masks forever?"

Not forever. But every week more we do do that, we save many, many lives.
It's like saying in 1943- Well, Hitler will carry on bombing anyway. What, you think we should keep on bothering going down air raid shelters forever?

@Fairyliz

Surely this must mean the vaccine isn’t working!!! On July 19th 2020 no one had been vaccinated and less people had had Covid so no natural immunity. Yet the deaths then were on 26. Still awful but not as bad. So does the vaccine work or do we just have to take our chance?

🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄 but last July there weren't 46k cases per day, we're there???

For the love of all that is good, couldn’t you have chosen an analogy that didn’t involve hitler @duffeldaisy?

But every week more we do do that, we save many, many lives.

Only we do not. Winter reopening is riskier than summer reopening. Most of the models published by SAGE show that.

We will have more deaths if we open later.

Millions of people in this country could do a better job than Mr Johnson. At least 200 of them are Tory MPs. The economy is harmed by the spread of the virus because of lack of action over restricting travel when India's crisis hit earlier in the year. Travel restrictions from France because the government fails to grasp a simple thing that there are parts of the country outside Europe, including one in the Indian Ocean.

Including those over 80 who Mr Johnson does not value at all, if the allegations made by Mr Cummings are true.

This is close to the best it's going to get. People in hospital are the ones that haven't been vaxed, on a single dose, or double jabbed but still quite ill. Same thing happens with flu... People get the flu jab but the very weak still end up in hospital and die.

Talking about the figures this time last year is mute point as we were at the end of a lockdown then, so of course the numbers were very low as hardly anyone infected as people took the first lockdown seriously. So cannot compare it. I don't know figures, but if you compare the first/second wave infection and death rate you would find that a lot more people were dying at the same rate of infection. Wasn't it over 1000 deaths a day in the second wave? So yes there are deaths, but not as much as there was. At this point we need to just accept it and live our lives. What is the alternative? Back in lockdown? Back to full restrictions? And then what? What are we waiting for? For the virus to die out? Australia tried that. Lockdown, aim for zero infection... Then delta got in... So they did well to hold it back for over a year...but now are going to have to deal with what we went through a year ago. So point being... This is the closest we are going to get to normal life. Makes me sad saying that, but I dont think covid is going away 😔

It's not only elderly, frail people dying. (Though they do make the majority). Today there were 5 people under the age of 60, and it's increasing all the time. Yes, it's low figures, but it's not acceptable.

0-9: 0% (0)
10-19: 0% (0)
20-29: 3.13% (1)
30-39: 3.13% (1)
40-49: 3.13% (1)
50-59: 6.25% (2)
60-69: 9.38% (3)
70-79: 25.00% (8)
80-89: 37.50% (12)
90+: 12.50% (4)

@Blessex

Look. For all those who want to live a life locked down and masked then please go ahead. For the rest of us who have done this for 18 months and are now double jabbed, we are through with it. My parents want to spend their last few years playing with their grandchildren. Young adults want to find their soulmates and party. Kids need education and social skills. Everyone needs company and hugs. Covid is shit yes. But now we are vaccinated there is little else we can do. Cases will rise and will keep rising. But this virus is here to stay. So those who want to live a life of lockdown then carry on. For those who want to start living again in what is already a short life - then please let them.

And this!

What’s all this “we are vaccinated now” talk? Plenty of us aren’t through no fault of our own. We are still waiting for appointments to happen.

I think numbers are lower than ore vaccine with the same cases. Also I think the whole '28 day of positive test' thing will skew data still - like someone said people will die due to weather this time of year and some will have had a 28 day positive result I'm sure - so not the same as dying from Covid

If you think 96 deaths is a lot with the amount of cases we have then you really need to go and look at what we was getting in the previous 2 waves the difference is huge .
I admit though when it’s starts getting in the 100’s it’s concerning.

@squiglet111 I am sure we could leave almost normal lives if face coverings in some situations remained, and some large capacity limits to prevent super spreading. Old Trafford only a quarter fill would still be enough for all local supporters of Manchester United.

on average 660,000 people die a year in the UK or roughly 1 in a 100 or 1808 a day this varies from well over 2000 in winter to about 1500 in summer
on average every day 450 people die of cancer, 460 from various forms of heart stroke and circulatory diseases 400 from alzheimers/ dementia
pneumonia flu and other lung infections 80, car accidents 5,
children under 18 averages 13 per day more than half are less than 1 year old there are 7 still births every day and at least 1 maternal death

There is zero chance of zero covid deaths just like there is zero chance or zero flu deaths no one is immortal we all die of something the question is how and when not "if"

cruel though it may seem there has to be an acceptable number of deaths like there is from flu and pneumonia but the number is not 100,000 but neither is less than 5-10,000 realistic either, maybe ir is that when combined with flu and pneumonia it is about the 5 year average for these

@Egghead68

And p.s. cases were artificially low last July as we had recently come out of a lockdown.

I wouldn't say that was "artificially low," but it does show that a lockdown does save lives. Of course, if EVERYONE followed ALL of the guidelines, WORLDWIDE, we'd be rid of this by now. Some don't, some never have. That's why our Red (Republican) states are dying like flies here in the USA...they've politicized COVID-19, and made not wearing a mask or socially distancing AT ALL a political statement. And the Republican lawmakers are egging them on.

In June, here in the USA, over 99% of deaths were among the unvaccinated. Over 96% of hospitalizations were.

the ICU doctor writes a weekly update

A lot of people locally will know who the doctor is talking about. Isnt this a problem re medical confidentiality.