I understand why people are against vaccine passports but...

[User135644]

I understand why people are against vaccine passports, but a lot of those most vocal against it are the usual crowd who have been anti-lockdown and anti-mask throughout (and often anti-vaccine). They won't accept vaccine passports but will be the first to complain if and when nightclubs are forced to close again due to the impact of the virus which without vaccines would already be a lot worse with the Delta variant.

They can't always have it both ways.

@Carlislemumof4 why would nightclubs need to close imminently? And so what if they do? Not a reason to bring in coerced vaccination in a population that doesn't medically need it.

And long covid might or might not be a concern for young people - my point is it is for THEM to make that judgement by choosing the jab or not.

I cannot accept people being treated differently because of vaccine status, it is the beginning of a very, very slippery slope and I continue to find it astonishing how quickly people are willing to give up their freedoms.

This, times a million. I can't believe we are sleepwalking into this. I'm horrified by it.

Nope

I’m not happy about it at all

I wear a mask, follow virtually all of the rules, socially distance, dont go shopping willy nilly, double jabbed…my three young adult children have had their first jabs

What will close things down is the removal of testing due to vaccine status.
Many people will see this as a green light to ditch everything because they don't pose a risk.

We are already been set up to blame those who aren't vaccinated for everything that will go wrong.

I totally agree it’s a dangerous road to go down, but I don’t get people being upset about this infringement of people’s liberty but not being upset about the far worse infringement of lockdown

I cannot accept people being treated differently because of vaccine status, it is the beginning of a very, very slippery slope and I continue to find it astonishing how quickly people are willing to give up their freedoms.

Spot on and I use masks and am double jabbed
It's like that poem "First they came for.." about the Nazis.
By the time they make Covid passports a requirement for something that you care about, it will be too late because everything that others cared about will be gone.
It is a slippery slope. There shouldn't be Covid passports for any domestic venues imo. It should be left up to the individual business and their insurers to decide.
In the UK we don't do mandatory vaccinations. Some jobs require vaccines but how long until childhood vaccination becomes a requirement for schooling like in other countries? Very worrying

@SlipperyDippery

I totally agree it’s a dangerous road to go down, but I don’t get people being upset about this infringement of people’s liberty but not being upset about the far worse infringement of lockdown

Because the NHS being easily overwhelmed is something that we've always lived with and the motivation that will have the highest compliance here in England.

I was also against the infringement on people due to lockdowns whether they were official rules or shit people made up and tried enforcing. I knew from experience how soul destroying isolation is, how it tucks with your mental health and more. But what do I know? When I posted about this last March I was told to stop dramatising, go away, clearly your a selfish person, anti whatever etc.

The whole vaccine program once the vulnerable where done has been about coercion.

People mention on get the vaccine because long covid, forgetting that you can still get the virus, ergo there is a risk of long bloody covid.

I'm pregnant, and not yet vaccinated as I'm still a bit uneasy about it.

Pregnant women are the only group who aren't 'advised to get the vaccine' and instead are 'advised to CONSIDER getting the vaccine'. Which is why I'm so unsure.

By the time the baby arrives and I've had time to get both vaccines plus the 2 week wait it'll be Feb/March.

I'm not looking to go into night clubs. But if this extends to cinemas, restaurants, cafes, malls, or church services, then it's going to have a huge impact on my life and mental health for 6 months.

But if the alternatives are restricting freedoms for people who don’t want the vaccination and restricting freedoms for everyone, including all those who are vaccinated and those who can’t be, the former is better

What I don't get is, why at this point does anyone need to be restricted? Can't the alternative be - a huge percentage of adults and most of the vulnerable have now been jabbed. That was always the aim, not "vaccinate every last person, or else".

Most people choosing not to have it have never been at any risk to start with. Not at risk is not at risk, who cares whether it's from the jab, or the benefit of youth?

Unfortunately making covid passports compulsory to enter places is just what the tin hat brigade were warning us of.

I wonder what other things we dismissed as never going to happen will come about.

I thought vaccine passports for pubs and clubs was just a conspiracy theory that the tin foil hat brigade spouted and would never happen?

I fear this is the gateway to Digital ID cards, something Dominic C has spoken in favour of before Covid.

@RolloTomassi

But if the alternatives are restricting freedoms for people who don’t want the vaccination and restricting freedoms for everyone, including all those who are vaccinated and those who can’t be, the former is better

What I don't get is, why at this point does anyone need to be restricted? Can't the alternative be - a huge percentage of adults and most of the vulnerable have now been jabbed. That was always the aim, not "vaccinate every last person, or else".

Most people choosing not to have it have never been at any risk to start with. Not at risk is not at risk, who cares whether it's from the jab, or the benefit of youth?

The reasoning would be that the NHS cannot cope with treating the amount of covid patients which it would need to once restrictions are fully lifted.

More people being vaxxed means less transmission, plus Patrick Vallance has said 60% of hospitalisation are unvaccinated.

So if they don’t incentivise vaccination or reintroduce restrictions, we will be back to the NHS being the national covid service again and cancelling essential but elective treatments and operations.

Unless of course they ration NHS covid care, but that’s hardly ideal either.

The date mentioned by Mr Johnson is just before the Tory party conference. Makes me think it won't happen because enough Tory backbenchers will oppose it, and unlike Mr Churchill he will not engage with other parties.

Also it’s not exactly like the vaccine stops you getting and spreading covid. By ditching the testing option could actually end up with more people in the nightclub with covid.

@TheOnlyWayisher

Also it’s not exactly like the vaccine stops you getting and spreading covid. By ditching the testing option could actually end up with more people in the nightclub with covid.

It doesn’t stop you spreading covid but it makes you less likely to.

@SlipperyDippery More likely to than someone who doesn’t have covid though

Lateral flow tests have such a low reliability rate I've always been amazed they were rolled out at all.

@Carlislemumof4

Lateral flow tests have such a low reliability rate I've always been amazed they were rolled out at all.

They were probably purchased from a "friend" so might as well use them

@Carlislemumof4

Lateral flow tests have such a low reliability rate I've always been amazed they were rolled out at all.

Follow the money.

They are wrong. State control of our bodies and medication is wrong. A two tier society is wrong.

@ChiefInspectorParker: "But if the alternatives are restricting freedoms for people who don’t want the vaccination and restricting freedoms for everyone, including all those who are vaccinated and those who can’t be, the former is better."

Fair enough if some decent analysis backed up that position. But a fag packet could hold the information the government is weighing up.

I think this debate is being looked at in the wrong light.

There are two things at play.

First, they are genuinely spooked at infection levels. Well, I stick two fingers up to them —they should have opened up in June after all. Makes yer bed and all.

But second, they want to look distract from the isolation pilot nonsense and spy an opportunity to do that while simultaneously looking strong and in control. Nice try.

So we should be careful when we accept the "it's 'this' or 'that'" options —it presumes there is logic and consideration behind the rhetoric, but there is nothing, just reaction.

We need to be careful what we give up.

Pushback right now is what's needed. Enough is enough.