I understand why people are against vaccine passports but...

[User135644]

I understand why people are against vaccine passports, but a lot of those most vocal against it are the usual crowd who have been anti-lockdown and anti-mask throughout (and often anti-vaccine). They won't accept vaccine passports but will be the first to complain if and when nightclubs are forced to close again due to the impact of the virus which without vaccines would already be a lot worse with the Delta variant.

They can't always have it both ways.

@Againstmachine

*And the promise of freedom didn’t come with conditions as to everyone being fully vaccinated.

It was the vulnerable, then the over fifties, then the etc etc*

The group's keep extending and infinity

why do you think policies have changed?

@Bythemillpond Sweden might be a good bet for no vaccine passports. I was speaking to a Swedish doctor and he said the Swedish constitution doesn't allow that sort of compulsion.

Laura Dodsworth spoke to a guy called Alex (for her book) who fucked off to Sweden as soon as the travel corridors opened up last year. And didnt come back. He said he could see the way this was all going.

If I have the vaccine and the 2nd vaccine and then a booster every 3 months I am going to be ill and bed bound for 1/2 the year which means I am not going to be able to get an income. If I don’t have the vaccine I am stuck not able to go out because I really don’t believe that it will just stay at Covid passports for night clubs and large venues.
My only hope for a normal life is to look for a country who don’t have Covid passports. I am sure there will be one or 2 in the whole world.

I'm not sure who's been giving you this info @Bythemillpond but there's no truth in it and I would question their motives in feeding such alarmist crap!

There would be no tangible clinical or population benefit in attempting to vaccinate the entire population every 3 months, and no way the government could even attempt to produce and roll out a vaccination programme in that timescale. We haven't even finished rolling it out the general pop - mine isn't due until August. Boosters will be offered to those who were vulnerable and prioritised first time round.

It's extremely unusual to not be able to have any non-live vaccinations but presumably your HCP knows this and has advised you against it? This would mean you're exempt and wouldn't need to worry about vaccination in terms of the UK vaccine passports, as they've already stated genuine medical reasons as a valid criteria for exemption.

I think in time vaccine doses will be lower, as already there are some studies showing low dose mRNA is showing a greater T cell response. I think this could mean lower amounts of side effects, which would be good for everyone, and may mean those people who react strongly will be able to tolerate the lower dose vaccines (hopeful guessing on my part!). Also longer gaps between doses could be more effective. This is the trouble with releasing vaccines so fast, we haven't had time to assess whether lower doses might be more effective.

www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.06.30.21259787v1

And before someone says 'that's just a preprint and hasn't been peer reviewed', the main authors are highly respected and published virologists.

leafyygreens

After every vaccination I have had I always get ill.
So much so that my mother stopped getting me vaccinated as a child
I have had the flu vaccine twice.
HCP all say it is a coincidence. I can’t think what the odds are that I had already contracted flu 2 years running, not felt unwell and then had the flu vaccine and became bed bound for weeks. Or that after getting a vaccine as a child I then became ill.

That’s interesting @CrunchyCarrot

@MercyBooth

And this is why uptake is dropping amongst younger people. They see nothing changing.

Well this thread has gone downhill

Nothing changing???? More freedom than we've had since March 20?

Plus bleating about broken promises . There were no promises

Did anyone notice the new variant? The one impacting the world? ( that Boris let in). Or do you just ignore that continually when you talk about things changing

Honestly. I am not in favour of vaccine passports, I prefer the idea of vaccine or testing

But this total rubbish really just really makes me think the opposite

Hhhmmm good question🤔😉. Delta anyone???

@sleepwouldbenice Im only repeating whats been said directly to me in RL.

"more freedom than we have had since March 20"

Why yes Thank You

Im not personally affected. I dont do clubs and pubs. Im 48 But i do talk to young people and a lot of them are pissed off.

Last weeks presence at the clubs was hardly representative of what the polls have been saying.

What many of you call rights are actually privileges.
Vaccines have always been necessary to visit other countries. You don't want to get the vaccine for yellow fever? fine, nobody is forcing you, but then you can't travel to Sierra Leone. And so on.
You don't want to get the vaccine? don't get it. But don't expect to be allowed to put other people in danger.
Of course when all those unvaccinated people get infected they hope to have the best care at the hospitals they are collapsing with their irresponsibility.
So entitled.

@leafyygreens

It's extremely unusual to not be able to have any non-live vaccinations but presumably your HCP knows this and has advised you against it? This would mean you're exempt and wouldn't need to worry about vaccination in terms of the UK vaccine passports, as they've already stated genuine medical reasons as a valid criteria for exemption.

Could you please post a link for this
As I can't find anything about medical exemptions anywhere (in the UK)
Only - under 18' being exempt from quarantine on arrival and from mid August no need to self isolate if close contact to positive person

What many of you call rights are actually privileges.

Ok, let's say going to a pub/nightclub/sports match is a privilege, not a right. Is it ok to decline people based on skin colour? or sexual orientation? If no, why not?

Foreign travel is irrelevant, as we can't say what other countries want or do.

As for hospitals, if "irresponsibility" was a criteria, time to turf out smokers and fatties.

Civil rights are not privileges. Once we give them up, they're not coming back. And double jab will not be the end of it.

I suppose what people don’t understand is why if vaccine uptake is going well ad you have opened everything up then why are we going to close it again to a section of people later on.
If it was about safety then vaccine passports should have been brought in on 19th July and we would be getting rid of them when we had vaccinated the percentage that would hive in theory herd immunity

Doing it this way is looking like there won’t be an end date for Covid passports. That this is just the beginning

Because it is.

Vaccines already been manufactured, sold, and bought by governmets. Now they're nearing their expiry date and have to go to waste. Not good. Hence a sudden global spike. Do you really believe the delta happened across so many countries simultaneously? And especially as UK ended the restrictions?

Another lockdown is scheduled. This time not the government, but the unvaccinated are the enemy. Vaccine passports are on the table. Then boosters. Then whatever. I really hope people revolt. See how media ignored Freedom Rally on saturday.

[quote MrsBillyNoJagNoMates]@leafyygreens

It's extremely unusual to not be able to have any non-live vaccinations but presumably your HCP knows this and has advised you against it? This would mean you're exempt and wouldn't need to worry about vaccination in terms of the UK vaccine passports, as they've already stated genuine medical reasons as a valid criteria for exemption.

Could you please post a link for this
As I can't find anything about medical exemptions anywhere (in the UK)
Only - under 18' being exempt from quarantine on arrival and from mid August no need to self isolate if close contact to positive person[/quote]
www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/19/how-will-englands-domestic-covid-vaccine-passports-work

Will there be exemptions?
Yes. People who have “genuine medical reasons of why they can’t get vaccinated” will not be subject to the scheme.

@Bythemillpond

I suppose what people don’t understand is why if vaccine uptake is going well ad you have opened everything up then why are we going to close it again to a section of people later on. If it was about safety then vaccine passports should have been brought in on 19th July and we would be getting rid of them when we had vaccinated the percentage that would hive in theory herd immunity

Doing it this way is looking like there won’t be an end date for Covid passports. That this is just the beginning

Back on July 19th less than 50% of the population was double vaccinated, presumably would not have gone down well (and had substantial impact on the economy) if vaccine passports were brought in when for so many it would not physically possible to be part of the scheme.

leafyygreens

Will there be exemptions?
Yes. People who have “genuine medical reasons of why they can’t get vaccinated” will not be subject to the scheme. Details of who will be included within this have not yet been released.

Thank you for this
I was hoping more for Goverment website etc
This - as in something which might or might not happen - is not very useful
My DS -living in continental Europe - has her exemptions certificate already
As soon as covid passes started to be introduced it was clear what will happen to people who can't have it for medical reasons and which medical reasons will be accepted

But highly appreciate you linking the Guardian article

@MrsBillyNoJagNoMates

leafyygreens

Will there be exemptions?
Yes. People who have “genuine medical reasons of why they can’t get vaccinated” will not be subject to the scheme. Details of who will be included within this have not yet been released.

Thank you for this
I was hoping more for Goverment website etc
This - as in something which might or might not happen - is not very useful
My DS -living in continental Europe - has her exemptions certificate already
As soon as covid passes started to be introduced it was clear what will happen to people who can't have it for medical reasons and which medical reasons will be accepted

But highly appreciate you linking the Guardian article

I agree, but to be fair even the information around vaccine passports can all be described as "This - as in something which might or might not happen - is not very useful".

They're much still flailing around - no official information has been released on dates, venues/locations beyond clubs etc. Given this general lack of organisation I'm not surprised a list hasn't been compiled or details on how to apply.

It's an absolute mess and I really feel for anyone who is understandably anxious about wanting confirmation if their situation would meet exemption.

leafyygreens

Thank you for understanding
I am actually not bothered at all with clubs, restaurants etc - whatever they might use it for domestic use
My main issue is all the quarantine I have to do if I ever go to see my family /my in-laws (2 different countries, 2 different continents)
So once they did exempt fully vaccinated AND under 18 from quarantine on arrival there should have been provision for people who can't have the vaccine
Argument - well unvaccinated can spread variants etc - is not relevant as so can under 18
Sorry, rant over...

@MrsBillyNoJagNoMates I have family in 3 different countries and have to quarantine every time even though all of us are double vaxxed, even the young ones. I havent seen any of my family for a year and in some cases 2 years. Time for the fully vaxxed to get some benefits surely?

MareofBeasttown
I have family in 3 different countries and have to quarantine every time even though all of us are double vaxxed, even the young ones. I havent seen any of my family for a year and in some cases 2 years. Time for the fully vaxxed to get some benefits surely?

Sorry don't understand
Are you being sarcastic?
Obviously fully vaxxed are enjoying the benefits of the jabs, or are they not???
So benefit of not going to die IF they catch the virus and also high likelihood of having very mild or no symptoms.
Or do they also need a medal for their health being good enough to be able to have jabs which highly protects them from covid and all covid complications?
🤔🤔🤔

No medals needed. I am just puzzled as to why when even those who are fully vaxxed can't travel in so many cases, we are already discussing exemptions.