Austalian state likely can't contain Delta, will let it rip

[starfro]

www.abc.net.au/news/2021-07-07/nsw-delta-variant-may-never-be-controlled/100273956

Be thankful that here most vulnerable people are double jabbed, whereas over there it's far, far fewer.

Delta cannot be contained, it's too transmissible.

When I see people on a walk, nowhere near people wearing a mask, I don’t think “oh they’re taking it seriously”, I think “they don’t understand risk properly”. Equally, it doesn’t do you any harm, so I say, each to their own. I certainly won’t be wearing a mask in the outdoors, unless I can’t social distance, or I’m mandated to.
As far as I know there haven’t even been cases linked to that stupid protest a couple of weeks ago, and they were outside, close and not wearing masks.

@Ozgirl75

A beach party is a bit different to walking past someone on a path. They were almost certainly not social distancing, and also I read that they probably shared cars to get to the party.

Yes, I think it’s a bit irresponsible to cite that as evidence of outdoor transmission when there are vague comments about the participants also sharing cars (one of the worst sites for indoor transmission due to small contained space).

I’m open minded about the possibility of Delta being more transmissible outdoors but that ABC article (their lead news article when I was in there) felt like yet more Australian media scare mongering.

I totally agree. An illegal beach party is so completely different to people briefly passing on a path. I remember beach parties and parties in a field of my youth and there certainly wasn’t any social distancing going on, if you catch my drift!

[quote Blessex]and no faffing around with AstraZeneca clot minuscule risk when I take the contraceptive pill, am just as likely to get a clot with Pfizer and 8 times more likely if I catch Covid. I stuck my arm out gladly.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.euronews.com/next/amp/2021/07/29/astrazeneca-covid-19-vaccine-blood-clot-risk-similar-to-pfizer-spanish-study-finds[/quote]
They are too completely different sorts of blood clots.

Similar to the loons I’ve seen wearing a mask in their car, on their own.

I think they are just people who have been to one location or shop and are driving to another, and don't wish to touch their mask in between. It does look a bit silly, though.

Plenty of Kiwis and their families have had medical emergencies, including those abroad who are dying or incapacitated and need to come home immediately to die, or recieve care.

That is not the same as an emergency in a country which doesn't have appropriate healthcare - which I'm sure you know.

@milkyaqua They are two completely different sorts of blood clots.

Yep but what difference does that make? Still 8 times more likely to get a blood clot if you catch Covid vs the vaccine. Doesn’t matter what type of blood clot it is.

Well, it matters in terms of treatment options and survivability.

am just as likely to get a clot with Pfizer

Actually, no. Pfizer is not associated with TTS, generally.

@milkyaqua have you seen this? Pfizer and Astrazeneca just shown in recent study to have same clotting risk. But still 8 times less than catching Covid.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.euronews.com/next/amp/2021/07/29/astrazeneca-covid-19-vaccine-blood-clot-risk-similar-to-pfizer-spanish-study-finds

And on the treatment options for different clots - I am confused as to what point you are trying to make.

@milkyaqua or this?

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/inews.co.uk/news/health/astrazeneca-vaccine-blood-clot-risk-pfizer-covid-jab-study-1127179/amp

Worth reading up. In the Lancet. Latest data.

[quote Blessex]@milkyaqua or this?

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/inews.co.uk/news/health/astrazeneca-vaccine-blood-clot-risk-pfizer-covid-jab-study-1127179/amp

Worth reading up. In the Lancet. Latest data.[/quote]
So sad their name got tarnished and purely because they were more affordable and hence a higher initial uptake. If Pfizer had been doled out at the same speed and quantity I wonder how this would have turned out.

I can't find anything in the press about Pfizer related deaths. Is that because there haven't been any or the press have been silenced?

And on the treatment options for different clots - I am confused as to what point you are trying to make.

Oh, just that TTS requires hospitalisation for treatment.

In the US, where hundreds of millions of doses of mRNA vaccines have been given, there were no associations with TTS, last time I looked; more some possible connection with heart muscle inflammation.

I agree, Covid is worse, anyway.

@Mandalay246 - how many other Fijians have flown to NZ for medical treatment ?

If you go and hide in a country with limited (or not exceptional) medical care, should you have the right to fly in and out ?

I must admit I think the US tech billionaires who have bought themselves isolation in NZ and apparently Fiji etc should do the walk of shame back into society, especially as their pockets have been lined big time during the pandemic.

@Ozgirl75

A beach party is a bit different to walking past someone on a path. They were almost certainly not social distancing, and also I read that they probably shared cars to get to the party.

I’d read they’d shared bongs but they probably shared cars as well

On the masks issue, context makes a difference. Here in Adelaide the chance of catching Covid anywhere is absolutely tiny inside or outside. My attitude to masks would be very different if I lived in Sydney.

I can’t wait for the day that the vaccinated here no longer need to wear masks unless there is a serious outbreak. I have my vaccination certificate in my Apple wallet ready to go

@Mandalay246

Plenty of Kiwis and their families have had medical emergencies, including those abroad who are dying or incapacitated and need to come home immediately to die, or recieve care.

That is not the same as an emergency in a country which doesn't have appropriate healthcare - which I'm sure you know.

There was one woman who'd had to travel to the US for vital mesh removal surgery not available in NZ, who needed to then return to NZ for the long post surgical recovery and care from family. She was declined and, iirc, left in the US trying to hire round the clock nurses.

Meanwhile, it turns out Larry Page applied for NZ residency, on the basis of wealth, 3 mos before he travelled, and it was approval AFTER he arrived.

Some animals are more equal than others, eh?

i.stuff.co.nz/national/300376797/larry-page-applied-for-10m-nz-residency-three-months-before-medevac-flight

how many other Fijians have flown to NZ for medical treatment?

It is not unusual for people from the Pacific Islands to be medevaced to NZ.

Meanwhile, it turns out Larry Page applied for NZ residency, on the basis of wealth, 3 mos before he travelled, and it was approval AFTER he arrived.

And it turns out his application couldn't be processed because he wasn't in the country. Once he arrived here it could be processed. Maybe read the whole article.

@Mandalay246

how many other Fijians have flown to NZ for medical treatment?

It is not unusual for people from the Pacific Islands to be medevaced to NZ.

Meanwhile, it turns out Larry Page applied for NZ residency, on the basis of wealth, 3 mos before he travelled, and it was approval AFTER he arrived.

And it turns out his application couldn't be processed because he wasn't in the country. Once he arrived here it could be processed. Maybe read the whole article.

I read it.

How many other foreign nationals are allowed to make a residency application outside the country, then be exempt from restrictions in order to enter the country, then have that residency validated basically retrospectively because they were granted entry to the country?

So many Kiwis are stranded abroad in medical emergencies, or even dying, they can't even get MIQ.

It's all about money, that's all there is to it.

@roses2 a lot of the initial dissing of AstraZeneca was political. Macron slammed it as unsuitable for over 65s (he was wrong but damage done). Then von der Leyen got her knickers in a twist about it because the EU were slow to do a deal (read slower than brexit Britain - that didn’t look good for the EU) so they threw accusations left right and centre to discredit it. Then it was shown to work super well in over 65 and then the blood clot story took off. Which of course is there but Pfizer just as likely to cause clots.

It’s all flipping political. Luckily the U.K. cracked on and a lot of us held our arms out gladly for astrazeneca. Such a shame as this vaccine is being made not for profit and doesn’t have the storage issues of Pfizer. But hey ho. It will all come out in the wash. But politicians and media have behaved generally appallingly.

It’s all flipping political. Luckily the U.K. cracked on and a lot of us held our arms out gladly for astrazeneca.

In many ways we got really lucky with our timing of AZ in the UK - first the rollout got started so quickly that we had loads of people already jabbed before the clotting issue was noticed at all, then when it was first raised it was by EU countries, right on the heels of various European politicians making blatantly political anti-AZ comments, so for a while it was assumed that this was more overblown point-scoring. By the time it became clear that the link was real, the vast majority of the highest risk people here had already been covered. If our rollout had been slower, the issue had been spotted earlier or there hadn't already been a lot of anti-EU annoyance stirred up, I think we could have seen more hesitancy that would have lead to more people dying or getting seriously ill overall.

Good summary @psychomath. And now of course coming out of the woodwork is that Pfizer has similar (still suuuuuuuuper low) clotting risk as AZ. But the PR machine has run away. It’s outrageous really as it’s people’s lives at risk. Not anymore in the U.K. but in countries such as Australia.

I still don't get why deaths due to Pfizer don't seem to be reported on. Surely if the clot level was the same we would be seeing some deaths due to the vaccine by now. Anyone know why there is no reporting on this?

@roses2 - if you look up the yellow card reporting data in the U.K. you will see deaths reported per vaccine ( although it’s pretty blunt data)

@roses2 there have been. Just not as much noise around them.