Austalian state likely can't contain Delta, will let it rip

[starfro]

www.abc.net.au/news/2021-07-07/nsw-delta-variant-may-never-be-controlled/100273956

Be thankful that here most vulnerable people are double jabbed, whereas over there it's far, far fewer.

Delta cannot be contained, it's too transmissible.

@IndigoC completely agree. My DH lives in the Netherlands. We got married just as lockdown happened. We managed to keep our marriage going by lots of testing (money) and using the Eurostar because planes were stopped for a while. It was difficult, expensive, quarantined a lot, time consuming testing, we both grabbed our vaccines as soon as feasibly possible on the list. But the bottom line is we were able to see each other and that saved our relationship I am sure of it. There was humanity in the response.

So we can all moan here in the U.K. that things weren’t this or that or the other. But thank goodness we didn’t get this dictatorial Australian response. Hearts and to all our Australian brothers and sisters.

and no faffing around with AstraZeneca clot minuscule risk when I take the contraceptive pill, am just as likely to get a clot with Pfizer and 8 times more likely if I catch Covid. I stuck my arm out gladly.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.euronews.com/next/amp/2021/07/29/astrazeneca-covid-19-vaccine-blood-clot-risk-similar-to-pfizer-spanish-study-finds

Excellent article on Australia’s situation in the Guardian:

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/aug/02/australia-needs-a-covid-plan-b-that-gives-more-freedom-to-the-vaccinated

From above:

“Right now in Sydney tens of thousands of people are isolating at home following potential exposure to Covid-19.

Outbreak control relies on high compliance with public health orders, and evidence indicates the vast majority of the community is cooperating. In Sydney, more than 2,000 people are in home isolation with active Delta infection, and all evidence suggests they are complying.

Our recent evaluation of NSW positive cases in hotel quarantine suggests among fully vaccinated the number of positive cases would be 6-12/10,000 international returnees – a drop in the ocean of current Delta infection. Thus, NSW could immediately allow more fully vaccinated returnees to enter home quarantine, without counting those persons to the 1,500 persons per week cap, with negligible risk of greater community spread.”

Normally I don’t agree with much in the Guardian but that article is very good (partly, I suppose, because my husband and I are fully vaccinated!)
One of the things we had said would encourage vaccination would be to give a little more freedom to those who are vaccinated. Eg, to free us from the 10k restrictions, so long as we didn’t enter the controlled zones. To allow groups of up to 5 to meet outside, so long as all were vaccinated.
Even to allow the children of vaccinated parents back into school.

You know what tho. However pro vax I am (and if you see my posts I am pro vax!!!) I still don’t agree in PENALISING those who can’t or won’t get it. Again I am more carrot than stick here. Offer incentives but dont penalise. Another thing I think we (so far) have got right. But let’s see where this bloody vax passport goes.

None of the states or territories is going for zero-Covid, starfro
Please point me to the statements by the relevant premiers that says this is so.

For goodness' sake, Echt, nobody is suggesting the "Zero Covid!" is actually the official name of the policy. When people talk about Oz etc. going for the Zero Covid approach, they are talking about the idea of states locking down and snapping borders shut every time there is a very small handful of cases.

The warning that Australians resident in another country who return to Australia for a while might be prevented from leaving is shocking. There is no COVID risk to Australia from someone who is merely wanting to LEAVE Australia, so I can only guess that the sole point and purpose of this is to frighten overseas Australians to the point that they will not dare to come back and visit family members. This really isn't the Australia I'm familiar with.

I think Australia is in a bit of a post-9/11 thing, where sheer panic is making people clutch wildly at solutions that they will feel pretty bad about a decade from now. (And at crazy pandemic theater-bollocks like face shields for anyone venturing outside, which apparently is the latest thing some experts are now encouraging for Sydney).

I was out for my state sanctioned exercise walk this afternoon and I saw a woman in her large front garden, doing some gardening, in a face mask . What a plonker. She was literally nowhere near another person.
Similar to the loons I’ve seen wearing a mask in their car, on their own.

I agree, this is not the Australia I remember. The terror seems to be disproportionate to the risk.

On quarantine, using the numbers above if you allowed the 30,000 stranded Australians in who are trying to return home permanently you would have 30 cases in hotel quarantine (if all were vaccinated, most are now). There were 262 locally transmitted cases recorded in Sydney yesterday. I think that puts the cruelty of their border policy in perspective.

Thing I don’t get about the overseas thing - like, where do they go? So, you turn up, do your quarantine and then see the person you’ve come to see, then go back to the airport, and they say “no you have to stay here” and you go “where abouts?” Like, how do the logistics of that work?

@Ozgirl75 it’s because it hasn’t been worked through. It’s all a deterrent. It’s like Italy or the Netherlands saying - right we are going to quarantine everyone coming from the U.K. for 5 days. Then you test to release. Loads of people panic and don’t come. Reality is they are not police states and don’t have the considerable resource to enforce it. But job done. Deterrent done.

@Blessex

You know what tho. However pro vax I am (and if you see my posts I am pro vax!!!) I still don’t agree in PENALISING those who can’t or won’t get it. Again I am more carrot than stick here. Offer incentives but dont penalise. Another thing I think we (so far) have got right. But let’s see where this bloody vax passport goes.

I agree with you. I want high take up but would feel uncomfortable with suggestions in pp especially penalising children of parents who are not vaccinated by excluding from school.

@Ozgirl75

Thing I don’t get about the overseas thing - like, where do they go? So, you turn up, do your quarantine and then see the person you’ve come to see, then go back to the airport, and they say “no you have to stay here” and you go “where abouts?” Like, how do the logistics of that work?

Yes. Surely it makes more sense if you want to deter people from coming and going to refuse them re-entry the second time if they attempt to visit again to close in time to their last entry? Rather than putting people into weird limbo as to whether and when they will be allowed to return home?

@Ozgirl75

I was out for my state sanctioned exercise walk this afternoon and I saw a woman in her large front garden, doing some gardening, in a face mask . What a plonker. She was literally nowhere near another person. Similar to the loons I’ve seen wearing a mask in their car, on their own.

Ah I live opposite an old guy who walks around his front garden in a face mask. We have a few older people on the street doing the same. I feel so much for them and people stop to chat a bit as they might be lonely.

In cars it’s usually just keeping them on. I don’t see it a big deal anymore but remember posts the same at the beginning.

As a Kiwi who hasn't been able to come home to visit family, due to the quarantine he apparently didn't have to do, hmm I'm fucking livid. I won't be the only one, either outside the country or inside (i.e. Kiwi families of expats who can't see their kids and grandkids).

Apparently covid isn't that risky if it's billionaire covid.

Apparently he did do quarantine, and it was a medical emergency which is allowed.

I think the logic behind it is to deter non resident Australians from going back to Australia in the first place. They’ve openly said that. So if you live normally in the U.K. it’ll deter you from even attempting the trip. It’s meant to free up places for Aussies returning home permanently from my understanding.
I just think the rhetoric is wrong. Surely the answer is for Aussie’s in the U.K. that are double jabbed ( as most of them are) can just home quarantine?
So same positive effect freeing up spaces in the hotels and even more importantly not attracting world wide negative headlines where half the world think you have lost your mind and become North Korea.
Home quarantine plus testing is what Australia need to be working towards , not more draconian border policies.

@Mandalay246

As a Kiwi who hasn't been able to come home to visit family, due to the quarantine he apparently didn't have to do, hmm I'm fucking livid. I won't be the only one, either outside the country or inside (i.e. Kiwi families of expats who can't see their kids and grandkids).

Apparently covid isn't that risky if it's billionaire covid.

Apparently he did do quarantine, and it was a medical emergency which is allowed.

It's reported now that he quarantined, apparently. For how long before release, we'll see. However its also now come out that his people lobbied for him to be moved to a "nice" hotel downtown. Normal quarantine doesn't come with choice of upgrades.

Plenty of Kiwis and their families have had medical emergencies, including those abroad who are dying or incapacitated and need to come home immediately to die, or recieve care.

Many of these cannot get an MIQ slot at all, let alone upgrades. This is why people are angry.

It is the inequity that really stings when the rich or celebrities are exempt. Like the Australian cricket team who were whisked out of India when Delta first surged. Or our Prime Minister visiting pubs in Cornwall and exploring family history while an observer at the G7.

@Ozgirl75

I was out for my state sanctioned exercise walk this afternoon and I saw a woman in her large front garden, doing some gardening, in a face mask . What a plonker. She was literally nowhere near another person. Similar to the loons I’ve seen wearing a mask in their car, on their own.

I’m currently in the minority in Adelaide for not wearing a mask outside. It’s almost like a mass delusion here. To be honest I’m only wearing mine where I absolutely have to. I understand that once we have cases here mask wearing may be needed but currently, with no known community cases it’s overkill. The premier said he thought the state had become complacent so the cynical side of me thinks the masks here are as much to be a constant reminder of the pandemic as for any scientific reason.

I have had both jabs so certainly not a Covid denier. Just see that there’s more to life than avoiding illness at any cost.

On the perks for the vaccinated, I selfishly would like some benefits right now but we don’t have vaccines available for all in many parts of the country so it would be unfair right now (though everything about Covid is unfair really).

Yes I do think it would probably be unfair to give benefits to the jabbed at this stage but it would be good if they said “if you’re jabbed by X date, you’ll be able to do x,y,z” to encourage people to get on with it.

Unfortunately there have been many leaks from quarantine. The current outbreak in QLD was from returned travellers. There are certainly questions about how and where quarantine is done, what could have been done differently and could now change for the vaccinated. In QLD we don't have a lot of community transmission. When we do, we lock down until it's under control.

Ultimately the travel restrictions have saved thousands and thousands of lives and in general terms the idea has a lot of support from Australians.

I don't object to wearing my mask outside. There is concern about airborne transmission outside. Latest NSW cluster is from a beach party. I also think it normalises it and shows I take it seriously.

[[Experts warn of outdoor COVID-19 risk after infections linked to Newcastle beach gathering
www.abc.net.au/news/2021-08-06/nsw-covid-delta-outdoor-transmission-risk/100353394]]

A beach party is a bit different to walking past someone on a path. They were almost certainly not social distancing, and also I read that they probably shared cars to get to the party.