When do you think bars / restaurants will ban unvaccinated people?

[Getafuckinggripman]

Because I do think it will happen...

Get, I know quite a few vaccine sceptics who have been on the 'alternative' side of the Covid debate for a long time. They are very vocal about 'project fear' and the sheeple being coerced into compliance with a world agenda.
I feel so sad for them; they are the ones feeling fearful, anxious, victimised, impinged and outraged and who ruminate and extrapolate on things which might happen down the line.
Generally, most people I know don't feel like this. People may decide to have the jab or they don't, depending on their own preference or vulnerability, use the app or don't, act responsibly, wear a mask if necessary as it is just for short periods of time. No great shakes. No pressure. No coercion. Just people responding in whatever way they feel suits them. I believe 'project fear' is generated as an idea by protocol sceptics who are themselves very fearful. So sad.

If they are going to do it, it needs to be after every one has had the chance to be double vaccinated.

The very small number of people who have been unable to get the vaccine due to medical reasons should be awarded an Exemption pass so they are not excluded.

Children obviously don't need to be vaccinated and should not be excluded.

Anyone else - tough.

But what they are doing in Ireland is appalling and we cannot go down the route of discriminating against the young.

@alexdgr8

i think it's a good idea. would attract lots more customers. those with genuine medical exemption could have a pass. those who just don't want it could go elsewhere, ie keep away from me.

I'd be much happier indoors in a place that only allowed vaccinated people and would exercise my personal choice to use those businesses in preference if I had that choice. I know it isn't 100% guarantee of not catching Covid but it lowers the risk considerably.

Since the vast majority of the adult population will in fact be vaccinated, I'm not sure businesses will suffer much loss if they ban the unvaccinated and in the short term businesses who try it might be busier. Exceptions would absolutely need to be made for those who are unvaccinated due to medical advice though

I don't think it will happen though for mostly for practical reasons . Businesses have had so many logistical challenges in the last couple of years , I think they just want to get back to normal as well. Having to police vaccinations probably seems a logistical problem too far and unwarranted at the moment.. There will also be lots of fraud with fake vaccine proof being provided etc which will make it even harder to police

That is ok with me too though , I don't strongly think it should happen or anything , just that if it did I'd avail myself of the choice when I could.

@WaterBottle123

Is there a list of conditions that prevent you having the vaccine? I've never seen one.

Green book on the government website chapter 14. If you have certain allergies. Consultants can also give further advice.

But it's all irrelevant as the idea had been shelved. check the news or the link a pp posted a few posts up.

I’m not sure, but I hope they do ban them (with a special exemption for those who can’t have the vaccine for medical reasons, obviously). Anyone who can have the vaccine but chooses not to is selfish in the extreme.

@Dongdingdong

I’m not sure, but I hope they do ban them (with a special exemption for those who can’t have the vaccine for medical reasons, obviously). Anyone who can have the vaccine but chooses not to is selfish in the extreme.

I agree of course there are many that can’t that’s fine it’s the won’t that bothers me . Sorry but you won’t have it then you can’t mix harsh but let’s see how many change their minds then eh . I don’t think it will be bars and restaurants though but definitely travel anywhere or big events .

@Dongdingdong

I’m not sure, but I hope they do ban them (with a special exemption for those who can’t have the vaccine for medical reasons, obviously). Anyone who can have the vaccine but chooses not to is selfish in the extreme.

This is completely illogical. If you think unvaccinated people are putting you at risk (despite you being vaccinated yourself) then why does their reason for being unvaccinated make a difference? Do you think that the virus distinguishes between people who can’t have the vaccine and those who don’t want it? What about people who are already immune because they’ve recovered from infection?

It just sounds like you want to punish people because you think they’re ‘selfish’ for making a different decision than you.

It just sounds like you want to punish people because you think they’re ‘selfish’ for making a different decision than you

It is a decision that impacts on everyone though… the fewer people that are vaccinated then the longer it goes on for. The unvaccinated provide a route for the virus to reach the vulnerable …(. And some of those are unable to be vaccinated). I’m personally have no desire to punish anyone but I also wouldn’t have cared if vaccination passports had been introduced. ( because apparently not caring about other people is ok.)

@Caspisnberg
Is that a temporary thing or more permanent do you think?
You say 22 days after first dose is accepted. I know I don’t live in Austria but what would happen to someone like me who had bad reaction to first dose by and couldn’t gave second dose. Therefore fit the 22?dats from the first dose criteria but am way beyond 22 days. Do they say 22 days from first dose but only up to 90 days?

@Divebar2021

It just sounds like you want to punish people because you think they’re ‘selfish’ for making a different decision than you

It is a decision that impacts on everyone though… the fewer people that are vaccinated then the longer it goes on for. The unvaccinated provide a route for the virus to reach the vulnerable …(. And some of those are unable to be vaccinated). I’m personally have no desire to punish anyone but I also wouldn’t have cared if vaccination passports had been introduced. ( because apparently not caring about other people is ok.)

No, the more people keep allowing the goalposts to be moved, the longer it goes on for. The vaccine was originally to protect the most vulnerable reduce the risk of hospitalisations that would overwhelm the NHS. The vast majority of them gave now been double vaxxed. It’s time to accept covid as just another virus in our lives and stop treating it differently.

Anyone who can have the vaccine but chooses not to is selfish in the extreme.

Oh fuck off!!

Is there a list of conditions that prevent you having the vaccine? I've never seen one

A definitive list would actually be extremely unhelpful. People's personal medical histories are often complex and highly individual.
In the support group for my condition, a number of people got vaccinated. Some were fine, others were not. And that's people with the same condition.

I think it could only happen at a point where everyone who wants it has had their vaccines, and then we still continue to have a high level of cases and covid beds filling up (bearing in mind we need to catch up with the waiting lists for treatments/operations and beds so have less beds for covid. A decision has to be made on whether to vaccine the -16 age brackets and 16-18, so we could still be a while.

@penni00 - it’s now 22 days after first vaccine, for up to a year. So you would be covered up until the date you had first. After that would need to take a test to gain entry. Those with 2 vaccines have no end date. No idea how long rule will last, but it’s been around several months so far.

So what do you say to my friend who has had three periods since her vaccine four weeks ago, and who has been told there is no link to the vaccine and it’s a coincidence.

Does she just take the second one and boosters thereafter so she can go out for dinner?

Well there reports today suggest that going forward there will be no need to go into isolation if you've been double jabbed (just daily tests), school bubbles will end and no covid passports and this is supported by Chris Whitty.

So I guess we will have to see what actually happens but I think there are a lot of people on MN who are going to have a shit fit at restrictions being lifted.

After 19th, we will be reaching a situation where if we continue with restrictions - unless we have particularly difficult issues in the depth of winter - where we will risk more lives indirectly.

That adjustment isn't going to be one that people are going to cope with well. So expect to see a fair amount of talk about this in the next couple of weeks.

And whilst I don't expect restrictions to be lifted earlier, if England do reach the Euros final, I am expecting there to be a half hearted / rather lax attitude about it coming from the top (basically the government know it will be bloody pointless and counter productive to tell people not to be dicks just a week before restrictions are due to be lifted - especially since the data is currently better than they feared would be the case at this point).

I am no where near anti-lockdown etc but I do think there are an awful lot of people who don't get where we are with things and what options are left to us going forward. Unfortunately we are at the point where there is little more that is feasible in terms of government intervention and there is a limit to what will be tolerated in the winter (if we need minor restrictions) if restrictions carry on over the summer.

There isn't much alternative to starting life back up.

I do get the impression that a lot of people haven't clocked or worked out how well vaccinations are working and how the data is good.

Its been said that in the near future the government will have to stop giving daily updates on numbers because its effectively going to fuel anxieties in an unnecessary and counter productive way. Of course this is going to be taken in completely the wrong way.

I really think there needs to be a massive change in the communications strategy because there is a growing gap between what is actually happening and where we are in terms of the pandemic and how it can be managed by intervention and what people understand.

People are not processing the decline in risk in an accurate way. Thats the problem.

It does worry me what the implications of this will be.

The dramatisation about it on MN is off the scale.

No we will not have covid passports. They won't work (for various reasons to do with willingness to comply reducing and prohibitive costs) and there are legal implications which would make it difficult to introduce / enforce without the risk that someone could come along and take it to court and more than likely win.

Its a complete non starter. And the government who looked into this, realised this reality which is part of the reason the whole idea is getting dropped.

But this part of the story seems to have been missed convientantly by those who want passports and by those who want to scare people and spread disinformation that they will be force to have one.

It.is.not.happening.

Never

@RedToothBrush

Really brilliant post. Love the shit fit description. Totally correct.

Its doing my fucking head in.

The disconnect with reality is not healthy.

If all restrictions are lifted on 19 July it should mean exactly that. Not restrictions are lifted for some people but not others.

You’re always a reliably insightful poster RTB. I quite agree that the government has a fight on their hands with a large number of people who are struggling with the arithmetic which tells us that half the Covid dead being fully vaccinated is absolutely brilliant news.

But I’m not sure I agree with you that Covid “passports” are impractical and not going to happen. The Germans are throwing their weight behind them in quite a big way, and the forty-thousand people at Wembley don’t seem to have felt it overly intrusive to be required to show a negative test. I don’t think that you’ll need to prove status to go to the supermarket, but I do think that it’s logistically feasible that anything ticketted and possibly indoor restaurants could require check of vaccine/recent recovery/recent test status on the door.

Whether it’s politically feasible depends on whether you make PCR tests free (maybe up to twice weekly) for unvaccinated people.

German law is different to English law though. And public willingness to comply is different.

That makes a difference as to whether these things will work.

Its easy to say that because Germany can do it we can too.

I think economically our economy is somewhat more fragile and our socio-economic inequality being significantly higher also make a difference.

You have to remember the small stuff like how Germany's restrictions have never been as strict and as long lasting as the UK's - particularly in the NW england.

That will get kick back.

I can guarantee that we are already seeing lower levels of people checking in with the nhs app in certain parts of the country and if you bring in passports you create a criminal market to bypass that - particularly if there is growing resentment amongst some communities.

Its a fine tightrope and one which i think would be particularly difficult if not impossible to walk in the uk.

This is into behavioural science in some areas and i suspect this has been looked into as part of deciding whether its a goer in the uk or not.

I’m not definitely sure it’ll happen, but I wouldn’t dismiss it as a possibility as confidently as you would. Bear in mind that track and trace in pubs and cafes is still law. Widely ignored nowadays, and flakily implemented but a legal necessity for the business despite its massive intrusiveness.

Lots of people are happily signing up to test for huge trial events - introducing passporting as an alternative would make things quicker and easier for most of the population while making it no more difficult for the others.

The Germans are throwing their weight behind them in quite a big way, and the forty-thousand people at Wembley don’t seem to have felt it overly intrusive to be required to show a negative test.

Being required to produce a negative test for a huge sporting event - as a one off when restrictions are still in place - is very different from being asked to show a 'vaccine passport' every time you want to go out for a drink or see a film in the cinema, for months or possibly years on end.

If the Germans want to live that way, that's up to them. But I think it would be a terrible idea here.

Wasn't Wembley another controlled test event like many others that have happened over the past several months?
The stage 1 testing showed a low number of transmissions despite a lot of the participants were not vaccinated.

I don't think many object to testing before and after events. Not only does it give a better indication about wherever you have it or not, considering you can still pass/transmit when vaccinated, it doesn't exclude a large proportion who cannot/will not have the vaccine.

I do really think this vaccine will be added to the existing globally recognised vaccine program. And boosters will be given for free to the vulnerable with everyone else having to pay. If we aren't having to produce a passport for events here then why do we need to create a vaccine passport for free to allow travel? That money would be better spent elsewhere like schools for example and putting in proper ventilation.