Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Covid

Mumsnet doesn't verify the qualifications of users. If you have medical concerns, please consult a healthcare professional.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Anti-Vax - what is the source?

228 replies

pennyspenny · 23/06/2021 08:32

Two of my good friends have become anti- Vax

We don't discuss it (barely seen each other) but they post a lot on social media about pharmaceutical companies being evil etc

They also attend freedom marches together and post photos of them hugging strangers

I also think they're distancing themselves from the rest of the group. Making plans together and declining invitations to meet with feeble excuse. Maybe I'm just paranoid

But I find myself wondering, where are they getting this info from?

We're all 40s with busy jobs and families. Sensible, educated and (relatively) clean living people. What's gotten into them?

Where do these theories start?

OP posts:
ollyollyoxenfree · 23/06/2021 22:43

why is it so many conspiracy theories about vaccines come back round to fertility and sterilising people?

shewalkslikerihanna · 23/06/2021 22:51

@Roonerspismed

The MHRA adverse effects is a pretty good starting point TBH
And people’s personal stories of their bad side effects or deaths of loved ones a second
AliceLivesHere · 23/06/2021 23:27

Some of the anti vax stuff sounds a bit cult like.

When they post the sheeple/waiting for people to wake up/population control/great rest etc they just come over as total loons.

WuhanClanAintNothingToFuckWith · 23/06/2021 23:54

There is a lot of bollocks talked about "why" people believe antivax conspiracies but it all really boils down to trust. If you trust the government, health system etc then you'll lean towards going with what they suggest even if you don't 100% agree with every single statement or action, because you believe that they are generally competent and have your best interests at heart.

If you've been repeatedly let down by the government/other forms of authority/the health service etc then this idea that the government has your best interests at heart might be laughable. The idea that they are competent generally less secure. IME, this tends to be those belonging to certain groups, with an higher likelihood of mistrust the more of these groups somebody belongs to. Education actually has very little effect, it's much more about life experience and to an extent how much you feel that the government are "people like me".

These kinds of groups:

People of low socio-economic status
Ethnic minorities
People who live any kind of "alternative" lifestyle
People who have experienced discrimination from authority figures
People with trauma
People with mental health issues

The really predatory antivaxxers prey on this scepticism/gap in trust in order to make money. They use tactics similar to the ones that abusers use when grooming victims. They make marginalised people feel listened to and heard. They use personal anecdotes (feels more human) rather than data (which marginalised people are often on the "wrong side" of so tend to find hard to trust or feel sceptical about) in order to twist the narrative in their own direction and they encourage secrecy because those people who you don't trust won't listen to you. Which unfortunately is kind of true, so it works well for them.

The less predatory but still unfortunately harmful antivaxxers are simply trying to support one another because they understand what it's like to feel marginalised. They feel accepted/heard by these different narratives and it feels genuine, is more accessible, or makes more sense to them than the narrative they hear from the "mainstream media", so they pass it on out of a genuine belief that this is the "real" truth and that people are being duped or listening to the wrong experts. It's not evil, it's actually caring/well-meaning, just unfortunately based on a faulty premise.

The problem (to me) is that there are geniune reasons for a feeling of mistrust and scepticism among groups like these. It's a huge issue and goes far beyond vaccinations. We are as a society (and many societies are) failing huge groups of people, and it seems we only really care when it comes up as an issue like oh no - some people don't want to get vaccinated now. Oh no, people don't trust the police and take revenge into their own hands. It wouldn't be a surprise at all if we had been listening to them in the first place, if our governments contained more diversity, if it was an open conversation rather than assuming that people like this are "just a minority" or even an "underclass" and don't matter. All people matter.

Brilliant, insightful analysis from (obviously) an intelligent, experienced professional in this field.

I spent my whole childhood, every day being told and learning not to “jump in the canal (or off a cliff) just because someone/others did”.

I read, I listen, I explore, I learn and have a very open, understanding mind. I most definitely know when someone is talking shit and when someone really, really knows their shit 🙂.

Thankyou for this post. I suggest many other people (those shouting about the power of not being sheeple) re-read, listen and explore the analysis by this particular brilliant poster 🙂 rather than being the sheeple themselves 😕

WuhanClanAintNothingToFuckWith · 23/06/2021 23:56

But they won’t

lightand · 24/06/2021 06:20

No they wont.

lightand Mon 08-Feb-21 09:36:48
@Helmetbymidnight
www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrFvKmUV88U&ab_channel=RSPBVideo

Surprised you havent seen it, as it is notorious.
I suspect that is where and when the Bill Gates and vaccines, theory, originated.

My post from 8 Feb 2021 on another thread.
Even with a link and picture.
The video was still there then.
Maybe it isnt now.

I would bet almost any money that if that link still works, even my post may get taken down from then.
It has taken 10 years, and millions of people have seen it and shared it, but it is presumably now too hot to handle.

But no, it has been "factchecked", and even though millions have seen it globally, all in context, and looked at it multiple times over the years, so called "factcheckers" have claimed it doesnt exist, out of context, and we are not to believe our eyes!

But crack on, those of you who mock and scoff.
It is not you that people are trying to inform[utter waste of time].

lightand · 24/06/2021 06:21

ooh, video still works for now.
I imagine it will be gone within a couple of hours.
We shall see.

BonnieDundee · 24/06/2021 06:49

People of low socio-economic status
Ethnic minorities
People who live any kind of "alternative" lifestyle
People who have experienced discrimination from authority figures
People with trauma
People with mental health issues

I don't fit into any of these categories but I do not trust this government. Tbh I'd be surprised if anyone in the country did after the shambles of the last year

Scrambledcustard · 24/06/2021 06:51

@ollyollyoxenfree

You should tell the people of India that. They are not a big fan of him.

[https://thediplomat.com/2021/06/why-are-indians-so-angry-at-bill-gates/]

@Scrambledcustard
But this just responding to questions about a conspiracy theory (@lightand saying Bill Gates saying billions of people must die), of which no evidence has been produced, with more conspiracies theories?

I had a look at your link and the claims are pretty wild.... And also pretty mixed up? He apparently injected children with the HPV vaccine and also sterilised them?

"Gates is being accused of funding a programme in 2009 of testing and sterilizing indigenous vaccines on tribal children via his NGO Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation (BMGF)."

"It is being claimed that the BMGF conducted an unlawful clinical trial of a vaccine on tribal children, without the consent of their parents."

"As per a GreatGameIndia report, a Seattle-based NGO, Program for Appropriate Technology in Health (PATH), with funding by BMGF, conducted trials in Telangana’s Khammam wherein they administered the Human Papillomavirus (HPV) vaccine to 14,000 tribal girls of 10-14 years of age."

So India is obviously lying then..? These articles were coming out in 2014 way before Covid. I dont believe that BG put micro chips in to the vaccine or that he made covid - but I do think there is truth to this. Too many officals, reporters, people coming forward to say it was. But because these people are not white and are poor country - white people just refused to accept it happened.

Why would a national news paper report these things? To be honest it makes me wonder if there is a racial element in it. Also we did he refuse to share covid patents with India citing it was too expensive?

[https://www.indiatoday.in/technology/news/story/bill-gates-believes-covid-19-vaccine-tech-should-not-be-given-to-india-what-he-said-and-why-he-said-it-1798357-2021-05-03]

If this was a white country would you be so disbelieving?

lightand · 24/06/2021 06:55

The whole thing is much more mainstream now, even than in Jan this year.
Even by April I noticed that MN are much less quick to take things down of this ilk.

Difficult for some people to keep denying predictions that come true.

But there will always be millions of people who will. Either for ungenuine reasons, or they are foolish[and we all know people like that]. Beware of such people. They will not help you in life. They will hinder yo, some as much as possible.

lightand · 24/06/2021 06:58

Glad by the way that there are two new posts after mine.
I thought it was later in the morning than it was.
I was concerned the link would have been taken down before people had chance to look at it.

Do I think people will still deny it? Of course I do!!! Grin

Scrambledcustard · 24/06/2021 07:04

I watched that link tea and couldn't see anything, it ended short?

I'm not a big fan of BG, the way he inserted himself in to the lime light and is behind hell of a lot of funding for the trails makes me believe he isn't as altruistic as he like to come across.

On a side note - people are capable of truly monstrous acts. The British army fired children and babies out of cannons when they were colonising India. Its not too far a stretch to believe a man was testing vaccines on indigenous children there. Children that white people on the other side of the planet dont care about.

Backofbeyond50 · 24/06/2021 07:06

@lightand yes that's the video and it absolutely confirms what I said.
Basically we do a good job with vaccines etc the population will have confidence that their children will survive and will have less kids.
What exactly are you reading into it?

lightand · 24/06/2021 07:09

I have no intentions of spoonfeeding people!!
I have posted the video and it is only 50 seconds long!
If people cant or wont listen or see, that is not my problem. Far from it.
The end.

Backofbeyond50 · 24/06/2021 07:11

@lightand my transcript saying exactly the same thing as your video. Absolutely no conspiracy there!

Anti-Vax - what is the source?
Hornbill123456789 · 24/06/2021 07:12

@GiveMeNovocain

That’s a dictionary definition, but:

‘There is no such thing as a selfless act”

So altruism is ultimately selfish. In order to gain personal benefit, you give benefits to your social group.

Backofbeyond50 · 24/06/2021 07:14

Ffs your video is identical to my transcript. I have played the video and it says exactly the same thing.
So what do you think it means? Come on you apparently have the superior critical thinking skills. I would love to know your theory.

WuhanClanAintNothingToFuckWith · 24/06/2021 07:34

I watched more than 50 seconds of BG waffling, revolutionary public talks. What are you thinking exactly though? Microchips and mind control?

Why don’t you watch the old YouTube video’s from the ex KGB Russian spies - detailing the 30-50 year plan where the Russian communist government plan to “Destabilise and Divide the UK and western economies. The plan details how they will manipulate democracy and free-market economies. Cause division and confusion. Finishing with the “Crisis” stage in order to conquer and capitalise!

It’s far more juicy than your BG paranoia.

Backofbeyond50 · 24/06/2021 07:37

Ffs your video is identical to my transcript. I have played the video and it says exactly the same thing.
So what do you think it means? Come on you apparently have the superior critical thinking skills. I would love to know your theory.

Sorry that was to @lightand

WuhanClanAintNothingToFuckWith · 24/06/2021 07:39

Then watch the SCARY interviews with Vladimír Putin (ex KGB) how he became leader and explains why and how he gained full centralised control of the whole of Russia.

WuhanClanAintNothingToFuckWith · 24/06/2021 07:47

That will scare the shit out of you, more than becoming Bill Gate’s robot would ever do!

Scrambledcustard · 24/06/2021 08:00

@WuhanClanAintNothingToFuckWith

That will scare the shit out of you, more than becoming Bill Gate’s robot would ever do!
Tbh they are both psychopaths. you can have one than one y'know
WuhanClanAintNothingToFuckWith · 24/06/2021 08:05

I know who I’d rather ‘mess’ with.

The journalist/interviewer looks like he more than shat his pants at the end of the interview - when Putin goes silent and stares him out (not laughing emoji 😐)

jewel1968 · 24/06/2021 08:44

I have had two vaccinations and for me it was a risk assessment. In the end I concluded COVID was riskier than vaccine. That may have been influenced by a parent's death from COVID. It is very real to me.

I do recognise that there are risks with the vac. I was very ill for 2 weeks after second jab. Constant headache and now my tinnitus has returned which I think is related.

So, I do understand anti COVID vac and I have a good friend who is strongly anti COVID Vax. But, I think we all need to recognise that there are lots of unknowns both with the vac and the disease. I think we should try to respect each other a little and try to understand where the other person is coming from.

Manteo · 24/06/2021 09:16

Read the whole thread and was looking forward to getting the explanation from @lightand but they seems to have gradually retreated when people explained what Bill Gates was actually saying.