Anti-Vax - what is the source?

[pennyspenny]

Two of my good friends have become anti- Vax

We don't discuss it (barely seen each other) but they post a lot on social media about pharmaceutical companies being evil etc

They also attend freedom marches together and post photos of them hugging strangers

I also think they're distancing themselves from the rest of the group. Making plans together and declining invitations to meet with feeble excuse. Maybe I'm just paranoid

But I find myself wondering, where are they getting this info from?

We're all 40s with busy jobs and families. Sensible, educated and (relatively) clean living people. What's gotten into them?

Where do these theories start?

Doubtful @MichaelMumsnet.
It's turned into a pissing against the wall contest between the astroturfers which is a shame, but pretty much par for the course with the clickbait words in the title.

Whats going on here then?

Why am I not surprised a certain poster has been deleted many multiple times? They were at it yesterday. Some posts just spoil for a fight.

@BertieBotts

Agree the channel 4 documentary is really good.

There is a lot of bollocks talked about "why" people believe antivax conspiracies but it all really boils down to trust. If you trust the government, health system etc then you'll lean towards going with what they suggest even if you don't 100% agree with every single statement or action, because you believe that they are generally competent and have your best interests at heart.

If you've been repeatedly let down by the government/other forms of authority/the health service etc then this idea that the government has your best interests at heart might be laughable. The idea that they are competent generally less secure. IME, this tends to be those belonging to certain groups, with an higher likelihood of mistrust the more of these groups somebody belongs to. Education actually has very little effect, it's much more about life experience and to an extent how much you feel that the government are "people like me".

These kinds of groups:

People of low socio-economic status
Ethnic minorities
People who live any kind of "alternative" lifestyle
People who have experienced discrimination from authority figures
People with trauma
People with mental health issues

The really predatory antivaxxers prey on this scepticism/gap in trust in order to make money. They use tactics similar to the ones that abusers use when grooming victims. They make marginalised people feel listened to and heard. They use personal anecdotes (feels more human) rather than data (which marginalised people are often on the "wrong side" of so tend to find hard to trust or feel sceptical about) in order to twist the narrative in their own direction and they encourage secrecy because those people who you don't trust won't listen to you. Which unfortunately is kind of true, so it works well for them.

The less predatory but still unfortunately harmful antivaxxers are simply trying to support one another because they understand what it's like to feel marginalised. They feel accepted/heard by these different narratives and it feels genuine, is more accessible, or makes more sense to them than the narrative they hear from the "mainstream media", so they pass it on out of a genuine belief that this is the "real" truth and that people are being duped or listening to the wrong experts. It's not evil, it's actually caring/well-meaning, just unfortunately based on a faulty premise.

The problem (to me) is that there are geniune reasons for a feeling of mistrust and scepticism among groups like these. It's a huge issue and goes far beyond vaccinations. We are as a society (and many societies are) failing huge groups of people, and it seems we only really care when it comes up as an issue like oh no - some people don't want to get vaccinated now. Oh no, people don't trust the police and take revenge into their own hands. It wouldn't be a surprise at all if we had been listening to them in the first place, if our governments contained more diversity, if it was an open conversation rather than assuming that people like this are "just a minority" or even an "underclass" and don't matter. All people matter.

Excellent analysis. This makes an awful lot of sense . I know that I do generally trust scientists and doctors but that is because with a few exceptions my experience is that they are trustworthy. I imagine others have a very different experiences that means their trust levels are much lower.

This does not make me a sheeple though, humans need trust to work together, it is a fundamental tenet of cooperation and without it ,humans would not have been as successful a species as they have been.

I can understand why people have less trust and don't want the vaccine but I also think it is not a great decision in the context of what is best for the most people. It is just that in order to make that best decision for the whole, a small amount of sacrifice or risk by individuals may be necessary and individuals will only do that if they can trust that the doctors and scientists are not incompetent or trying to exploit them .