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See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Anti-Vax - what is the source?

228 replies

pennyspenny · 23/06/2021 08:32

Two of my good friends have become anti- Vax

We don't discuss it (barely seen each other) but they post a lot on social media about pharmaceutical companies being evil etc

They also attend freedom marches together and post photos of them hugging strangers

I also think they're distancing themselves from the rest of the group. Making plans together and declining invitations to meet with feeble excuse. Maybe I'm just paranoid

But I find myself wondering, where are they getting this info from?

We're all 40s with busy jobs and families. Sensible, educated and (relatively) clean living people. What's gotten into them?

Where do these theories start?

OP posts:
Hornbill123456789 · 23/06/2021 16:59

@GiveMeNovocain I didn’t judge anyone as selfish. Both individualistic and altruistic behaviours are selfish. And the thread was about ‘anti-vax’ - not vaccine hesitancy or questioning the vaccine.

lightand · 23/06/2021 17:06

What Bill Ga tes said on a 2010 or 2012 millions of internet shares- video, is certainly one source.
He was doing a presentation and said about reducing the population by about 4 billion, something like that.
[Please look it up yourself, I am fed up of spoon feeding people today, sorry. My patience has evaporated for today].

BeansMeansBeans · 23/06/2021 17:09

@GiveMeNovocain that makes sense Wink

ollyollyoxenfree · 23/06/2021 17:14

@lightand

What Bill Ga tes said on a 2010 or 2012 millions of internet shares- video, is certainly one source. He was doing a presentation and said about reducing the population by about 4 billion, something like that. [Please look it up yourself, I am fed up of spoon feeding people today, sorry. My patience has evaporated for today].
@lightand

But Bill Gates never said that and the video you're referencing doesn't exist?

If it does please link it! It's not "spoonfeeding", it's just simply providing the primary source for the (wild) claims you're making

GiveMeNovocain · 23/06/2021 17:16

[quote Hornbill123456789]@GiveMeNovocain I didn’t judge anyone as selfish. Both individualistic and altruistic behaviours are selfish. And the thread was about ‘anti-vax’ - not vaccine hesitancy or questioning the vaccine.[/quote]
In what way are altruistic behaviours selfish? It literally means unselfish www.dictionary.com/browse/altruistic

Tealightsandd · 23/06/2021 17:19

@lightand

What Bill Ga tes said on a 2010 or 2012 millions of internet shares- video, is certainly one source. He was doing a presentation and said about reducing the population by about 4 billion, something like that. [Please look it up yourself, I am fed up of spoon feeding people today, sorry. My patience has evaporated for today].
But why mass murder?

Why doesn't he campaign for, and fund, assisted suicide and euthanasia?

I've long planned to go to Dignitas when the time is right for me, but it's not an easily available option for everyone. It's expensive for a start.

He wants to reduce the world's human population, you say. Why not open up access to painless peaceful deaths? Including for reasons of prolonged and extreme psychological suffering. Instead of dying from Covid or DIY suicide.

It's inhumane to deny access to a good death.

Tealightsandd · 23/06/2021 17:24

Including for reasons of prolonged and extreme psychological suffering.

This is an option in the Netherlands and Belgium.

Also, he could encourage through education and funding access to birth control and family planning.

I agree that the world is overpopulated (by humans), but killing people off in a cruel manner (i.e. Covid) is not the answer.

There are more compassionate solutions.

Backofbeyond50 · 23/06/2021 17:24

@lightand What Bill Ga tes said on a 2010 or 2012 millions of internet shares- video, is certainly one source.
He was doing a presentation and said about reducing the population by about 4 billion, something like that.
[Please look it up yourself, I am fed up of spoon feeding people today, sorry. My patience has evaporated

I may be wrong but my understanding was that related to providing vaccines to poorer countries so they will have confidence in their child making it past infancy so will have less dc as a result.

Seesawmummadaw · 23/06/2021 17:28

Fear

Can’t be bothered to read the comments but I bet I can guess how it’s gone!

Tealightsandd · 23/06/2021 17:31

As for anti vaxx. Not necessarily the followers, but those at the top, the people behind the anti vaxx campaigns, very often come from the far right. There's a reason for that. Eugenics and fascism. They want to kill off the vulnerable. Hence their desire to let deadly diseases spread uncontained by vaccines. In the case of Covid, certainly in the West (UK, USA etc), where research suggests minority ethnic groups are being hit harder by this virus, that will obviously add to their motivation. For example, they keep holding mass gatherings, deliberately without masks, harassing and intimidating locals, in very diverse London. Not all by any means but definitely some involved will be doing this because of sinister (racist) inclinations.

ollyollyoxenfree · 23/06/2021 17:31

[quote Backofbeyond50]**@lightand What Bill Ga tes said on a 2010 or 2012 millions of internet shares- video, is certainly one source.
He was doing a presentation and said about reducing the population by about 4 billion, something like that.
[Please look it up yourself, I am fed up of spoon feeding people today, sorry. My patience has evaporated

I may be wrong but my understanding was that related to providing vaccines to poorer countries so they will have confidence in their child making it past infancy so will have less dc as a result.[/quote]
yup

anti-vax rumours spread by people conflating two videos (and then others repeating it without bothering to look at the videos themselves)

Video number 1 was from a man called “Dr. Robert O. Young” who is allegedly quoting Gates saying 3 billion must die during a panel entitled “International Tribunal for Natural Justice”, a group that has spread conspiracy theories about the COVID-19 pandemic.

Video number 2 is actually Bill Gates himself from 2010 www.ted.com/talks/bill_gates_innovating_to_zero/transcript
He's talking about slowing population growth (which doesn't equal killing people) by providing better medical care, sanitation and access to contraceptive to developing countries, as it is well know that in countries with high infant mortality, families tend to have lots of children.

@lightand why don't you look into this yourself rather than repeating conspiracy theories??

PartTimeLegend · 23/06/2021 17:42

Well you need to change your title as its misleading

The thread is in the Coronavirus topic. Confused

lightand · 23/06/2021 18:30

@ollyollyoxenfree
*Video number 2 is actually Bill Gates himself from 2010 www.ted.com/talks/bill_gates_innovating_to_zero/transcript
He's talking about slowing population growth (which doesn't equal killing people) by providing better medical care, sanitation and access to contraceptive to developing countries, as it is well know that in countries with high infant mortality, families tend to have lots of children.

@lightand why don't you look into this yourself rather than repeating conspiracy theories??*

that is not what he said!
Why dont you do the looking up!

lightand · 23/06/2021 18:31

[quote Backofbeyond50]**@lightand* What Bill Ga tes said on a 2010 or 2012 millions of internet shares- video, is certainly one source.
He was doing a presentation and said about reducing the population by about 4 billion, something like that.
[Please look it up yourself, I am fed up of spoon feeding people today, sorry. My patience has evaporated*
I may be wrong but my understanding was that related to providing vaccines to poorer countries so they will have confidence in their child making it past infancy so will have less dc as a result.[/quote]
yes, you are wrong.

lightand · 23/06/2021 18:33

[quote Backofbeyond50]@lightand www.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-bill-gates-fake-3-billion-q-idUSKBN29Y20D[/quote]
ha ha
they havent seen the video either in that case!

it is still widely available for anyone to see.
And I refuse any more on MN to spoondfeed people
Look it up for yourselves or dont.
The ones that do are genuine.
The people that dont, [shrug]. I am not in charge of them.

lightand · 23/06/2021 18:35

Actually I go further than that, and now question some posters[by no means all] as to their authenticity.
There are posters on any social media forum who are not genuine.

Backofbeyond50 · 23/06/2021 18:38

@lightand I shared a transcript of the relevant part of the Ted Talk.
You are the one making the claims so sure the onus should be on yku yo provide the evidence.

Backofbeyond50 · 23/06/2021 18:40

Ignore typing as multitasking.

Backofbeyond50 · 23/06/2021 18:41

www.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-bill-gates-fake-3-billion-q-idUSKBN29Y20D
This is where I got the right idea from

Tealightsandd · 23/06/2021 18:43

Is Bill Gates a robot? 🤖

Tealightsandd · 23/06/2021 18:44

Or a transformer.

A robot in disguise.

BonnieDundee · 23/06/2021 18:52

I think when the scientists and government have lied to us over inflated figures to justify lockdowns, there is a massive issue with trust and any alternative views will flourish in that situation.

You shouldn't generalise and call people who decline the covid vaccine anti vaxxers. I don't know anyone who is an anti vaxxer to my knowledge. I know a few who are
not having this vaccine

ollyollyoxenfree · 23/06/2021 18:55

[quote lightand]@ollyollyoxenfree
*Video number 2 is actually Bill Gates himself from 2010 www.ted.com/talks/bill_gates_innovating_to_zero/transcript
He's talking about slowing population growth (which doesn't equal killing people) by providing better medical care, sanitation and access to contraceptive to developing countries, as it is well know that in countries with high infant mortality, families tend to have lots of children.

@lightand why don't you look into this yourself rather than repeating conspiracy theories??*

that is not what he said!
Why dont you do the looking up![/quote]
@lightand

I have literally shared the video you're claiming BG said "three million people must die", when if you watch it, he clearly does not

The intro:
I'm going to talk today about energy and climate. And that might seem a bit surprising, because my full-time work at the foundation is mostly about vaccines and seeds, about the things that we need to invent and deliver to help the poorest two billion live better lives. But energy and climate are extremely important to these people; in fact, more important than to anyone else on the planet. The climate getting worse means that many years, their crops won't grow: there will be too much rain, not enough rain; things will change in ways their fragile environment simply can't support. And that leads to starvation, it leads to uncertainty, it leads to unrest. So, the climate changes will be terrible for them.

Now, we put out a lot of carbon dioxide every year -- over 26 billion tons. For each American, it's about 20 tons. For people in poor countries, it's less than one ton. It's an average of about five tons for everyone on the planet. And somehow, we have to make changes that will bring that down to zero. It's been constantly going up. It's only various economic changes that have even flattened it at all, so we have to go from rapidly rising to falling, and falling all the way to zero.

This equation has four factors, a little bit of multiplication. So you've got a thing on the left, CO2, that you want to get to zero, and that's going to be based on the number of people, the services each person is using on average, the energy, on average, for each service, and the CO2 being put out per unit of energy. So let's look at each one of these, and see how we can get this down to zero. Probably, one of these numbers is going to have to get pretty near to zero.

And here's the bit anti-vaxxers are using to spread misinformation

First, we've got population. The world today has 6.8 billion people. That's headed up to about nine billion. Now, if we do a really great job on new vaccines, health care, reproductive health services, we could lower that by, perhaps, 10 or 15 percent. But there, we see an increase of about 1.3.

As I said, he's talking about slowing population growth (which doesn't equal killing people) by providing better medical care, sanitation and access to contraceptive to developing countries, as it is well know that in countries with high infant mortality, families tend to have lots of children.

So where exactly is the point where he talks about "mass genocide" using vaccines?

ollyollyoxenfree · 23/06/2021 18:58

Oh I'm sorry, your claim was actually about killing 4 billion people, not 3 million, my mistake Hmm