Just wondering if those that have refused to have the vaccine are now wishing they had?

[Lovemusic33]

There’s a lot of talk about vaccinated people not having to quarantine in the future making travel easier, the possibility of a vaccine passport to be able to go to events and travel.

I have several friends that have refused to have the vaccine due to conspiracy theories and ‘not knowing the risks’, if they had taken the first vaccine they would have had their 2nd by now and potentially be ok to travel in the coming weeks or attend events, there even talk of some jobs needing vaccination (care workers).

I’m just wondering if anyone regrets their choice not to vaccinate?

BTW, I am vaccinated but I’m not judging those who decided against it, just wondering if they have changed their minds?

Natural immunity is a tricky one because initial immune response appears to be linked with severity of disease, with those people who experience a more severe illness having a stronger immune response. Not everyone who has covid will have the same levels ( if any) of immunity, for example older people may not be able to produce an effective immune response…response varies hugely between different people. Some people create a very effective immune response, so they will not get sick again and will not pass the virus to anyone else. Others will make antibodies and be protected from getting sick with COVID-19 but may still be infected and pass it on. Most people who are infected make some form of immune response but whether this is effective at preventing reinfection in the future is not easy to determine.

@Poorlykitten

I’d it now not okay to post another side of the argument? Or do you anti-vaxers just want free reign to peddle your own agendas? You are not the mumsnet police. Or maybe you’d like to be. There’s no need for rudeness. It’s been a fairly interesting discussion up til now and the ‘oh no! Not enough vaccines on the shelves past August’ debate.

Because the post was purely aimed at those who have not had the vaccine. Not for those who have to put their ‘arguement’ across. There are plenty of other threads for this go on one of them.

You have tried to twist it to make it look like the people who have not had the vaccine (by the way not called anti vaxxers just because they don’t take the invitation to have one vaccine) are on some kind of agenda when the only one on the thread to look like they have some kind of agenda is you who has had the vaccine.

The talk about people not have the vaccine being very vocal in their choice is wrong by the looks of it, the ones on this thread who have had the vaccine have more vocal.

I’m not going to get in to an argument with you, because there are all kinds of different people on this thread with different ideas and motives. Some folk have had one vaccine, some two, some are definitely anti-Vax. Some are still making up their minds. I haven’t twisted anything, if you took some of my remarks to mean you, that’s your mistake. As I have said ( numerous times) it’s your own choice to make those decisions. I am happy with my choice.
I’m also Happy there are threads like these that one can put one’s point across. I posted the thing about going in holiday as a flippant remark, was meant to be tongue in cheek hence the emoji, difficult to get that across on these threads. Obviously.

[quote ineedaholidaynow]@wasthataburp much easier to travel to France if you are vaccinated[/quote]
You can still go to places you just have to test. I'm not sure what vaccinated people think they can do that unvaccinated cannot?

"Good luck if you think 90%+ of the country will think being vaccinated has earned them nowt."

It has earned them protection from the virus. I certainly don't think they did it just to go on a holiday they could always have gone on unvaccinated that's for sure

It’s individualism v’s altruism - and you’ve taken a very individualistic stance. Society needs altruism to get Covid under control.

I certainly didn't take the vaccine to be altruistic. I took it because I believe it was the best thing for my family and me. Doing it for society didn't really feature in my decision making. I'm thinking I'm not the only one, but I'm sure MN will have a high percentage of the UKs aultruistic individuals on this thread.

I also don't believe those not taking this vaccine and automatically anti vax. I completely understand their position. I understand it more than those skipping off with a smile on their face to get jabbed. Which is also fine. It's just the reaction I understand least.

@wasthataburp I thought France was only accepting unvaccinated people from England if they are travelling for essential travel (and you need to prove this and the French authorities will decide whether it is essential). Vaccinated people don't have this restriction.

@Poorlykitten

Natural immunity is a tricky one because initial immune response appears to be linked with severity of disease, with those people who experience a more severe illness having a stronger immune response. Not everyone who has covid will have the same levels ( if any) of immunity, for example older people may not be able to produce an effective immune response…response varies hugely between different people. Some people create a very effective immune response, so they will not get sick again and will not pass the virus to anyone else. Others will make antibodies and be protected from getting sick with COVID-19 but may still be infected and pass it on. Most people who are infected make some form of immune response but whether this is effective at preventing reinfection in the future is not easy to determine.

Isn’t that the same for the vaccine too?

Research is still ongoing but the thinking is they differ, as once vaccinated you get a set dose administered to the muscle… ‘it’s possible that mRNA delivery may change the way antigens are presented to the immune system, leading to differences in the antibodies that get produced. A third difference is that natural infection only exposes the body to the virus in the respiratory tract (unless the illness is very severe), while the vaccine is delivered to muscle, where the immune system may have an even better chance of seeing it and responding vigorously’
This is taken from this article and there’s more info on vaccine versus natural immunity
www.google.co.uk/amp/s/directorsblog.nih.gov/2021/06/22/how-immunity-generated-from-covid-19-vaccines-differs-from-an-infection/%3ffbclid=IwAR2zegImuxiPPlNtCXf0E52sqNU6PJN1mHJi3uVVn4EsGk12w1Vt2FLPeSs&amp

Natural immunity is a tricky one because initial immune response appears to be linked with severity of disease, with those people who experience a more severe illness having a stronger immune response.

I don't think this is correct, Poorlykitten, but I may be misunderstanding you so apologies if so.

My understanding is that people who have a strong T cell response (which should follow after the initial innate immune response), will fight off the disease faster than those who have a delayed or weak T cell response, as it's the T cells (CD4 and CD8) that do the 'heavy lifting' to eliminate the virus. This virus is good at evading the initial innate immune response, so it's really important your T cells respond well. People who've had severe disease haven't responded well at all, having a delayed or almost non-existent T cell response, which is why they become very ill or even die. But then you could say their immune system goes a bit crazy producing a cytokine storm, etc so maybe you mean that as a 'stronger' response? It's the wrong type of response, though, in terms of what is needed to eliminate the virus.

In terms of natural immunity, it does vary very widely between people (about 100 fold) so that unless you have antibodies, CD4, CD8 and memory B cells all tested, you cannot say for sure how good your protection is after infection. The strength of your immune response is very much an individual thing and has no relation to the severity of disease you've experienced.

Disclaimer: I'm not a virologist/immunologist, but a biochemist. I've learned about some of this by watching videos and reading papers, mainly by virologist Prof Shane Crotty and his team, who are leading the field in studying the immune responses to this disease.

In this video, the Prof discusses findings re the natural immune response and disease:

@CrunchyCarrot explains more here… www.immunology.org/news/immunity-and-covid-19-what-do-we-know-so-far

Thanks @Poorlykitten, I'm always happy to read and learn more.

Quote from that article, @Poorlykitten, I've bolded the part that agrees with what I wrote above.

The initial immune response appears to be linked with severity of disease, with those people who experience a more severe illness having a stronger immune response. However, in some cases the immune response itself can be damaging to your tissues or it induces excessive inflammation. We need to be able to distinguish between a protective immune response and a damaging immune response and studies looking into this are ongoing.

The damaging immune response happens to people who cannot fight off the virus more readily/quickly via their T cell response. In this case it's the body's last ditch effort to get rid of the virus, a cytokine storm. It's the sort of immune response you really don't want.

Yes. I understand that. Thank you. I’m sorry I didn’t cover all bases!

Interesting that, in relation to natural immunity, the article states:

“we do not yet know enough about the duration of protection to issue ‘immunity passports’.”

after acknowledging that it’s been shown to last over 8 months in several studies. Yet we are pushing the idea of immunity passports for vaccines even though:

“It is not yet known how long immunity to COVID-19 from vaccines will last.”

Anyone who regrets not having it can go and get theirs, so it'll be a fairly short-lived regret. Personally, I'm really glad that I didn't go and get mine the week before the advice around AZ changed (which was when I was meant to) as I'm in my early 30s. My position is unchanged; I won't be having it while breastfeeding. If that means I can't go abroad, well, I wasn't likely to anyway while DD is small.

I think it’s not that clear cut, my husband tested positive for covid. Three months later he had no immunity. I think that’s the problem, no one really knows how long and if you’ve had it mildly you may not have immunity for long? As I understand some studies have also shown.

How do you know he had no immunity? Antibodies aren’t the only story here

Antibodies dropping below a certain threshold don’t necessarily mean that you no longer have protection though. You may still have T cell immunity.

@Roonerspismed he was part of an immunity test trial.

Yes but if it looked only at antibodies then it’s only half the story

I believe it looked a both, however I’m not disagreeing with you at all T cells are very important but difficult to measure, antibody tests are usually a marker for whether or not you have T cell immunity but my point is that this can vary and it is not a given that you develop it for any long period.

@bumbleymummy

Interesting that, in relation to natural immunity, the article states:

“we do not yet know enough about the duration of protection to issue ‘immunity passports’.”

after acknowledging that it’s been shown to last over 8 months in several studies. Yet we are pushing the idea of immunity passports for vaccines even though:

“It is not yet known how long immunity to COVID-19 from vaccines will last.”

Yes indeed - good point!

. Had it at the beginning tested again a few weeks ago and still have anti-bodies.

Haven’t read the full thread, but not sure why people are getting angry about unvaccinated people endangering other people’s lives. If the vaccine works, then the only lives that unvaccinated people are endangering are those of other unvaccinated people. Everyone who is likely to get seriously ill from covid in the UK has been offered the vaccine now so has had a chance to protect themselves from unvaccinated people/covid. It’s up to them whether they decided to get vaccinated and get this protection. So it’s a personal decision whether to get vaccinated or not-it’s basically about “do I want to protect myself from covid” I don’t think altruism really comes into the decision.