Us and them- the vaccine. So much pressure

[ToTheLetter01]

Before i begin, i am not an anti vaxxer. Me and my DS have had all our jabs and we also have annual flu jabs.
However i feel such hostility and pressure from people who have had their vaccine for me to have it. The reason i do not want it at this moment is just because its still in the experimental stage until 2023 and i would like to know more long term data.
This is my choice, its my body and everyone should have the choice. Choice to have the vaccine and choice to not. I do not shame nor ridicule anyone for having it or not.
However i have felt so much pressure from friends and others in the wider public, media, government.

I feel like the nation is becoming split between us and them. ( vaccinated and unvaccinated). With things becoming unfair for people. Eg. may be able to travel and not quarantine if had vaccines, care home workers may be forced to have the vaccine. Now i get the point of view of they have had it and may be more "safe". But how is the ok in a freedom and rights point of view. As i stated freedom to do what you want with your body.

I feel like this world is becoming some kind of dystopian world. I miss my old life, i took all the freedom for granted. Its true that you don't realise how good it was until it's gone.
I don't want people to be hostile to me because of my choice to wait for long term data on the vaccine. Half of me wants to lie to people i've had it so they will not be stand off towards me.

But the danger is not covid. That's the issue! The danger is people following like sheep, not having any independent thought, being intolerant of other people's views, being unable to debate without resorting to personal insults. The danger is also the fact we have now have incompetent dictatorship ruling this country with zero opposition. The danger is the fact we have screwed a whole generation of children. The danger is the huge backlogs with the NHS, the cancers going undetected. Those to me are the dangers. Not covid. That is small fry.

This is very much spot on and needs discussing far more than the tit for tat nonsense our government is keen for us to to waste our time on.

The longer we spend bickering the less we notice the shit they're getting away with.

Expressing the view that it’s in the experimental stage is a lie. An outright, designed-to-alarm, massive whopping fib.

Don’t want the vaccine? Fine. Debate it like a grown up, not like Kevin fucking Turvey.

Hmmm @Saucery

Let's debate this instead ...

But the danger is not covid. That's the issue! The danger is people following like sheep, not having any independent thought, being intolerant of other people's views, being unable to debate without resorting to personal insults. The danger is also the fact we have now have incompetent dictatorship ruling this country with zero opposition. The danger is the fact we have screwed a whole generation of children. The danger is the huge backlogs with the NHS, the cancers going undetected. Those to me are the dangers. Not covid. That is small fry.

What are your thoughts on this?

OP I've had the vaccine and it's of little interest to me whether other people have it or not (although I am glad my relatives are). I fundamentally disagree with the idea of vaccine passports but realise that other countries can do what they like about letting visitors in or not.

I also don't like the testing so it's much easier for me to have a needle in my arm if the choice to get in somewhere is a test or the vaccine.

A few weeks ago my area were doing surge testing and people said "you should do your bit and go". Frankly I'd rather give blood than do a covid test so have signed up to do my bit that way too.

Basically I've had the vaccine because it suits me, and am not pretending it's for the greater good.

may be able to travel and not quarantine

One thing I've noticed so many people don't seem to get is that we have NO SAY in what other countries do. They can ban us completely, demand vaccination, quarantine, whatever. We're not even in the EU anymore so we now have zero say in Europe.

The thing is, if you claim it is an ‘experimental vaccine’ then you haven’t educated yourself enough about the process.

There’s normally a ton of red tape and paperwork that mean vaccines take years to be approved. It’s the bureaucracy that has been bypassed not safety.

I’m all for freedom of choice but nothing about these posts imply you have educated yourself or know anything about vaccines and the processes involved.

What if everyone took your position? It’s about society as a whole.

People can choose but will need to accept that with vaccination you have to quarantine in return from o/s

Which is now looking likely

@OverTheRubicon

It's your body your choice.

But if everyone took your view, there wouldn't be enough people vaccinated to truly see the outcome - nor enough of a reduction in transmission to allow for reopening. People will lose their lives or livelihoods due to others choosing not to vaccinate.

I do believe people should have a free choice on vaccination. But you can't insist that others who are negatively impacted by your choice aren't allowed to express their frustration.

Or, to put it more bluntly:

If you don't want to be judged as a freeloader happy for others to take (miniscule) risks to protect you, shut up about it. Don't come on here looking for a fight and complaining about how unsympathetic people are.

Dustyboots I think each of those issues deserve their own thread. This one is about vaccines and falsely claims that they are in the experimental stage, which they are not.

@Dustyboots: thank you!

@loulouljh

But the danger is not covid. That's the issue! The danger is people following like sheep, not having any independent thought, being intolerant of other people's views, being unable to debate without resorting to personal insults. The danger is also the fact we have now have incompetent dictatorship ruling this country with zero opposition. The danger is the fact we have screwed a whole generation of children. The danger is the huge backlogs with the NHS, the cancers going undetected. Those to me are the dangers. Not covid. That is small fry.

Yes I agree with so much of this!!!

@loulouljh

And to the person above who says this is anti-vax nonsense, that is precisely what I am talking about. It is NOT anti-vax. It is someone expressing their views and concerns about the vaccine and the wider impact. I am so sick of people not being allowed to express their views. Which are just as valid as anyone elses.

And again!!!

@Saucery

Dustyboots I think each of those issues deserve their own thread. This one is about vaccines and falsely claims that they are in the experimental stage, which they are not.

I agree.

@loulouljh

But the danger is not covid. That's the issue! The danger is people following like sheep, not having any independent thought, being intolerant of other people's views, being unable to debate without resorting to personal insults. The danger is also the fact we have now have incompetent dictatorship ruling this country with zero opposition. The danger is the fact we have screwed a whole generation of children. The danger is the huge backlogs with the NHS, the cancers going undetected. Those to me are the dangers. Not covid. That is small fry.

This is why we have schools. Unfortunately some people slip through the net then come on MN and post crap like this.

Give your head a wobble.

@Saucery

Expressing the view that it’s in the experimental stage is a lie. An outright, designed-to-alarm, massive whopping fib.

Don’t want the vaccine? Fine. Debate it like a grown up, not like Kevin fucking Turvey.

Spot on.

*This is why we have schools. Unfortunately some people slip through the net then come on MN and post crap like this.

Give your head a wobble.*

Er, what? ...

Never mind. Let's move on.

For those talking of having the vaccine to protect others and themselves, doing for the country and those who don't take it are all me me me.

You can still get covid even if you have the vaccine just potentially less severe so you could still pass it on to your children or vulnerable people and have to hope it's not severe for them either.
Either way you look it's not as clear cut as people make it, pro or against.

@loulouljh

You're very much confusing the right for someone to express a view with validity.

The view of a complete idiot, will always be something worthy only of complete ridicule.

I agree with you OP but really, if it's not the right thing for you then you've just got to be confident and stand firm in your own decision. If people are going to have this attitude, that's not your problem it is theirs. Let them be like this if it makes them happy. If friends are going to turn away from you because of your choice, they maybe weren't the friends you thought they were. Everyone has choices to make and if something is important, you just have to push right on through and ignore the pressure. But I absolutely hear you. I like to be open to new information and have the ability to reassess decisions from time to time to see if it's still the right one. So I am fairly adaptable, but I will always have confidence in my own choices whatever they may be.

@jeanne16

I am a strong believer in freedom of choice. If you have an illness, you are entitled to refuse any treatment.

However in the case of the COVID vaccine, I believe we all have a responsibility to wider society and in this case, that trumps our individual freedoms. We all have to do our bit to stop this virus.

I agree. I'm fast losing any patience with people who choose not to be vaccinated when it's not contraindicated. If they face some restrictions on their freedoms or movements that's a result of the choice they made.

No, not all views are as "valid" as everyone else's. You're allowed to express them, but that doesn't mean people don't get to judge you on them.

You are free to not have the vaccine. Just as I am free to smoke. But neither of us is free to live without consequences of what that might do to others.

Do you moan about smokers not being free to smoke wherever they like, too?

@ToTheLetter01

Before i begin, i am not an anti vaxxer. Me and my DS have had all our jabs and we also have annual flu jabs. However i feel such hostility and pressure from people who have had their vaccine for me to have it. The reason i do not want it at this moment is just because its still in the experimental stage until 2023 and i would like to know more long term data. This is my choice, its my body and everyone should have the choice. Choice to have the vaccine and choice to not. I do not shame nor ridicule anyone for having it or not. However i have felt so much pressure from friends and others in the wider public, media, government.

I feel like the nation is becoming split between us and them. ( vaccinated and unvaccinated). With things becoming unfair for people. Eg. may be able to travel and not quarantine if had vaccines, care home workers may be forced to have the vaccine. Now i get the point of view of they have had it and may be more "safe". But how is the ok in a freedom and rights point of view. As i stated freedom to do what you want with your body.

I feel like this world is becoming some kind of dystopian world. I miss my old life, i took all the freedom for granted. Its true that you don't realise how good it was until it's gone.
I don't want people to be hostile to me because of my choice to wait for long term data on the vaccine. Half of me wants to lie to people i've had it so they will not be stand off towards me.

What “long term data” are you waiting for?

Do you understand that vaccinations don’t have long term side effects? If an adverse reaction is going to happen then it will do quite quickly.

@dottodot21

For those talking of having the vaccine to protect others and themselves, doing for the country and those who don't take it are all me me me.

You can still get covid even if you have the vaccine just potentially less severe so you could still pass it on to your children or vulnerable people and have to hope it's not severe for them either.
Either way you look it's not as clear cut as people make it, pro or against.

Less severe is just fine by me! Mask wearing and social distancing can further mitigate the chances of me passing it on. I don’t even want some sneering halfwit blathering on about “experimental vaccines” to catch Covid off me. It’s pretty shit to go through, by all accounts and they have a greater chance of ending up in hospital blocking a bed needed by someone for non-Covid reasons.

The problem is, if everyone thinks like you we will never have long term data. I think it’s important to get as many people vaccinated as quickly as possible to get herd immunity. But if people arent willing to get vaccinated for this reason, then we have to give them other “perks” to encourage.
Im lice in a country where they opened concerts and festivals for the summer for vaccinated people. Vaccinations arent 100% safe, but if everyone at the concert is vaccinated then the chance of spreading the virus ( and me getting ill) there is much lower than if only half the people are vaccinated.