Us and them- the vaccine. So much pressure

[ToTheLetter01]

Before i begin, i am not an anti vaxxer. Me and my DS have had all our jabs and we also have annual flu jabs.
However i feel such hostility and pressure from people who have had their vaccine for me to have it. The reason i do not want it at this moment is just because its still in the experimental stage until 2023 and i would like to know more long term data.
This is my choice, its my body and everyone should have the choice. Choice to have the vaccine and choice to not. I do not shame nor ridicule anyone for having it or not.
However i have felt so much pressure from friends and others in the wider public, media, government.

I feel like the nation is becoming split between us and them. ( vaccinated and unvaccinated). With things becoming unfair for people. Eg. may be able to travel and not quarantine if had vaccines, care home workers may be forced to have the vaccine. Now i get the point of view of they have had it and may be more "safe". But how is the ok in a freedom and rights point of view. As i stated freedom to do what you want with your body.

I feel like this world is becoming some kind of dystopian world. I miss my old life, i took all the freedom for granted. Its true that you don't realise how good it was until it's gone.
I don't want people to be hostile to me because of my choice to wait for long term data on the vaccine. Half of me wants to lie to people i've had it so they will not be stand off towards me.

What are your thoughts on those on the vaccine trials? Who put themselves forward without knowing what the side effects may be?

Honestly? I think they're crazy and stupid.

And you’re so much more precious than the rest of us, the people you are relying on to be the guinea pigs in your experimental cohort. Of course we’re hostile!

How ignorant is this mentality? Where to start?

Each to their own, but I’ve just declined a lovely day out with an anti vaxx friend which would have involved close contact indoors. It’s outdoors or nothing, I said. She’s now in a mood with me. Well... skit.

Um.. I hate to break it to you but the majority of peoples immune systems can deal with covid without a vaccine.

@sunnypeaches

The problem is, if everyone thinks like you we will never have long term data. I think it’s important to get as many people vaccinated as quickly as possible to get herd immunity. But if people arent willing to get vaccinated for this reason, then we have to give them other “perks” to encourage. Im lice in a country where they opened concerts and festivals for the summer for vaccinated people. Vaccinations arent 100% safe, but if everyone at the concert is vaccinated then the chance of spreading the virus ( and me getting ill) there is much lower than if only half the people are vaccinated.

This exactly

@DolphinFC

I don't support the idea of compulsory vaccinations.

But a couple of things:

There may be limitations placed on your life over the next few years. You're going to have to take those on the chin and not moan.

I feel a little bit irritated that you want your freedoms back but want other people to take the risk that you're not prepared to take in order to get them back.

Absolutely this.

You can't have your cake and eat it.

@Delatron there is hardly a ‘horrific death rate’ from Covid.
More people have and will die from undiagnosed and untreated illnesses that the National Corvid Service continues to ignore.
But I guess these are the ‘wrong’ sort of illnesses and deaths to the Covid Cultists.

I’m sure it does @Dustyboots

If we all refused the vaccine what would you envisage happening? Or were you just thinking of yourself? Knowing full well most of the population would get vaccinated...

@Dustyboots

*Research into immunisation has been based on the theory that the benefits of immunisation far outweigh the risks from delayed adverse events and so long term safety studies do not need to be performed. When looking at diabetes—only one potential chronic adverse event—we found that the rise in the prevalence of diabetes may more than offset the expected decline in long term complications of H influenzae meningitis. Thus diabetes induced by vaccine should not be considered a rare potential adverse event. The incidence of many other chronic immunological diseases, including asthma, allergies, and immune mediated cancers, has risen rapidly and may also be linked to immunisation.

We believe that the public should be fully informed that vaccines, though effective in preventing infections, may have long term adverse effects. An educated public will probably increasingly demand proper safety studies before widespread immunisation. We believe that the outcome of this decision will be the development of safer vaccine technology.*

@speckledostrichegg

I repeat my previous reply to this, good grief @Dustyboots

you are quoting from a widely disproven paper from 1999 by Classen, who is the american equivalent of Andrew Wakefield

He is an anti-vaxxer who claims vaccines (as you have nicely quoted) cause diabetes, cancer and other auto immune disorders. He self-published a piece of rubbish claiming that the coronavirus vaccines cause prion disease, which is not based on any real evidence, and again, has been widely disproven.

If this is where you get your information from no wonder you are anti-vax!

Your body your choice, fair enough.

But I don't want to share space with you right now. Certainly not until we have better data on the efficacy of the vaccine with new variants. That is a right that vaccinated people should have. Restrictions, quarantine and extra testing is your contribution given that you aren't contributing to the solution via a vaccine.

@TheVanguardSix

And you’re so much more precious than the rest of us, the people you are relying on to be the guinea pigs in your experimental cohort. Of course we’re hostile!

How ignorant is this mentality? Where to start?

I don't think it's ignorant. I think it's ignorant to dismiss this as an actually valid point of view.

People who are waiting to see how the vaccine affects others are basically saying they're more precious than everyone else. They want to use the data that other people's vaccinations accrue to make decisions.

@Cindy974

Um.. I hate to break it to you but the majority of peoples immune systems can deal with covid without a vaccine.

Do you understand why we don't want to reach herd immunity through infection? Why do you think all governments globally have realised this is a bad idea?

Scientists are confident in the vaccines, the side effects would mostly appear by now. There have been vaccines withdrawn before, due to serious side effects, which occurred in the few weeks post vaccination.
Another top idea from some anti vax individuals is that it will alter the DNA. This is simply not true, mRNA does not interact with DNA at all so there will be no long term DNA altering effects from the vaccines.
If you don't wish to have the vaccine that is completely your choice, but look into the actual science behind it and vaccines in general.

@Sadsiblingatsea

Im not particularly a lockdown supporter and I’d quite like restrictions to end now. But that’s down to vaccinations. So you’re saying even without vaccinations the death rate wouldn’t be that high? That the pandemic would end on its own?

So you’re going for natural herd immunity (that worked well for measles, polio, smallpox.)

@Cindy974

Um.. I hate to break it to you but the majority of peoples immune systems can deal with covid without a vaccine.

Except for the 3.8m people around the world who have died, millions more hospitalised, and unknown number with long covid?

@anon12345678901

Scientists are confident in the vaccines, the side effects would mostly appear by now. There have been vaccines withdrawn before, due to serious side effects, which occurred in the few weeks post vaccination. Another top idea from some anti vax individuals is that it will alter the DNA. This is simply not true, mRNA does not interact with DNA at all so there will be no long term DNA altering effects from the vaccines. If you don't wish to have the vaccine that is completely your choice, but look into the actual science behind it and vaccines in general.

Have you checked the yellow card scheme with the many reported side effects?

I’m sure it does @Dustyboots*

If we all refused the vaccine what would you envisage happening? Or were you just thinking of yourself? Knowing full well most of the population would get vaccinated...•

Sorry you've lost me @Delatron - not sure what you mean.

I'm not scared of Covid and don't think anyone apart from the elderly and vulnerable need to be vaccinated against it.

Totally your choice but then you can’t moan about the ongoing restrictions and limitations you will have.

@Cindy974 I had my vaccine yesterday and am suffering from a sore arm and tiredness. Small price to pay! Every drug has a list of side effects. Look at the leaflet in a pack of Calpol.

@speckledostrichegg

The doctor I've taken the most advice from over the years has been Richard Halvorsen.

@Dustyboots

I’m sure it does @Dustyboots*

If we all refused the vaccine what would you envisage happening? Or were you just thinking of yourself? Knowing full well most of the population would get vaccinated...•

Sorry you've lost me @Delatron - not sure what you mean.

I'm not scared of Covid and don't think anyone apart from the elderly and vulnerable need to be vaccinated against it.

What do you consider to be elderly? My late 40s, seemingly healthy neighbour ended up in a 6 week coma in December with it.. I guess you just never know, I had it and for me it was like a 2 day viral fever

But what if everyone chose, like you, not to have it?

You wouldn't be travelling very far then either and we would possibly be going into another lockdown as cases continue to spiral.

So you are benefitting from other people's choice to have it...their choice benefits you but your choice benefits only yourself.

That's why people feel a bit fed up with this kind of 'personal choice' argument.

I support anybody's decision to have the vaccine or not but I do take exception to the implication that the little people like me are fine to have a vaccine "still in the experimental stage until 2023" without knowing "more long term data", with any risk that entails, while there are other people who should enjoy the benefits of others taking the risk but shouldn't have to take it themselves.

Yes I have, have you looked at any drug side effect leaflet you've ever taken? All drugs have potential side effects, including the pill.

I think all posts that refer to the vaccines as ‘experimental’ should be deleted

Ditto the posts that wang on about "trials until 2023".

I do report some of them now and then, but I would be reporting all day if I reported them all.