Us and them- the vaccine. So much pressure

[ToTheLetter01]

Before i begin, i am not an anti vaxxer. Me and my DS have had all our jabs and we also have annual flu jabs.
However i feel such hostility and pressure from people who have had their vaccine for me to have it. The reason i do not want it at this moment is just because its still in the experimental stage until 2023 and i would like to know more long term data.
This is my choice, its my body and everyone should have the choice. Choice to have the vaccine and choice to not. I do not shame nor ridicule anyone for having it or not.
However i have felt so much pressure from friends and others in the wider public, media, government.

I feel like the nation is becoming split between us and them. ( vaccinated and unvaccinated). With things becoming unfair for people. Eg. may be able to travel and not quarantine if had vaccines, care home workers may be forced to have the vaccine. Now i get the point of view of they have had it and may be more "safe". But how is the ok in a freedom and rights point of view. As i stated freedom to do what you want with your body.

I feel like this world is becoming some kind of dystopian world. I miss my old life, i took all the freedom for granted. Its true that you don't realise how good it was until it's gone.
I don't want people to be hostile to me because of my choice to wait for long term data on the vaccine. Half of me wants to lie to people i've had it so they will not be stand off towards me.

It's your body your choice.

But if everyone took your view, there wouldn't be enough people vaccinated to truly see the outcome - nor enough of a reduction in transmission to allow for reopening. People will lose their lives or livelihoods due to others choosing not to vaccinate.

I do believe people should have a free choice on vaccination. But you can't insist that others who are negatively impacted by your choice aren't allowed to express their frustration.

I agree that it’s your body and your choice. And I do not have any ill feelings towards anyone who didn’t take their jab.

However the us/them thing may be necessary to get ourselves (I mean as a nation or even as a world) out of the global pandemic. I wouldn’t support non vaccinated people having different restrictions if cases were under control. But they aren’t so it may be necessary to essentially discriminate for the greater good of society.

@youshouldbeplotting

The vaccines are not experimental and phase 4 follow up and monitoring is a normal part of the life cycle of newly approved/licensed drugs. This was posted on another thread about vaccines and may help you understand the true status of the vaccines.

fullfact.org/online/godfrey-bloom-video-makes-false-claims-about-vaccines/

It is your right to refuse the vaccine, but you have to accept that there may be potential drawbacks to not having it in the same way as those of us who choose the to have the vaccine accept that there may be potential drawbacks (possibility of mild side effects and a very very small possibility of serious side effects).

This is a very helpful post OP. I would urge you to read it.

I for one am very grateful to those who took part in the actual trial phase (which ended before the vaccine was approved). I volunteered but wasn't accepted. Those people did a genuinely good and altruistic thing for the world.

If you choose this path you may well find your friends think less of you but it is your choice.

It's your body, your choice.

However if everyone made the same choice there would be no vaccine.

If most people made the same choice we'd either be having massive death tolls or permanent lockdown until 2023 according to you.

Your choice not to lockdown and not to have it is only possible because of others. You want the benefit of people being vaccinated but not the risk.

If you don't want to be vaccinated, and I respect your choice, why aren't you subject to the consequences of that choice; lockdown until 2023 while the vaccinated have the consequences of their choice; travel and mass events?

@cantab94

OP you have explained how I feel very well I had the first jab but for my own reasons decided not to have the second. It is none of anyone elses business but fed up with feeling I have to justify myself.

Because you can’t justify yourself!

You live in a society and you are no more valuable than anyone else. If you want to withdraw from society fair enough- in that case I don't care if you have the vaccine or not. But if you want to partake in society, mix with my parents, my children, the vulnerable who actually can't be vaccinated for health reasons then I do condemn you. How dare you so blatantly look after number one whilst still wanting all the good things that come from living in a society. You have as much responsibility to me as I have to you. You only get to make decisions about your body when they don't make other people ill.

@Sensateria

I’ve been vaccinated but I’m aghast at some of the vitriol I’ve seen directed on here and on social media towards those that are choosing not to have the vaccine.

It’s your body, your choice and I accept and support that.

Absolutely agree with this.

I just wish people would stop whinging and bleating on about 2023. Just be quiet, tell people you've got it booked and they'll shut up. It means you'll have to stop banging on about it also though.

Yes we get you haven't had much control over your life for the past year and this is a way of gaining some. But not getting it means restrictions for longer. So just don't complain and get on with your life.

I'm pro vax personally but have no issue with others who dont want the vax. My responsibility is to get myself vaccinated if I wish to. I have no business in what other people wish to do.

The freedom is still there you just don’t like the consequences of either choice, it’s still a choice though.

Unless vaccination becomes mandatory for everyone then there’s no argument because you can choose not to (and the consequences that go along with that). It’s vaccination without long term data or no vaccination and accept that makes your risk to others greater in some specific circumstances.

Being SO one way or SO the other is the problem I see.
There is heaps out there by some credible, some not so credible which makes it hard to decide.
People are very quick to judge those unsure/against, saying their brainwashed or agreeing with crap but where did those for the vaccine get their information from?
A lot of things in history were pushed as the best or the right way and turned out not to be so just let people make their own decision.
Stop forcing the obligation you felt on others or the narrative in the media dictate how you feel about others.
If it was less pushy I'm sure more people would feel more inclined.

@Temp023

You witter on about “freedoms”These are the freedoms that the people who have been vaccinated have allowed to happen because they have reduced the transmission and vigour of the virus by being vaccinated. You people actually make me sick!

Again no need to project anger onto people who have made a choice for themselves. Don't see me telling you that you make me sick. No need for these attacks on people.

@PurpleyBlue

I don't really care if you get it or not. Just as long as you aren't forced against your will.

Thank you, I feel the headline about carers being forced to have it or lose their job was not very nice. They are being forced into a rock and a hard place.

@ToTheLetter01 out of interest, given that you’ve said you haven’t completely written off the idea of getting vaccinated in the future, what would your view be if our government announced new travel restrictions that allowed entry to all, vaccinated or not, without any other restrictions.

Is it only a problem if it’s people from this country potentially being denied travel on the basis of a vaccine or do you extend that view based to all international travel?

@youshouldbeplotting

To be fair, most of the vitriol I have seen is towards those who don't want the vaccine AND are spreading false information about the vaccines to try and put other people off. Anyone doing that deserves vitriol.

Agree it works both ways. You should not be trying to force or influence people to not have it either. People should just let others make their own minds up without any backlash.

Again no need to project anger onto people who have made a choice for themselves. Don't see me telling you that you make me sick. No need for these attacks on people.

Why are you just responding to the angry people on here? Many very reasonable people have responded as well. It's possible your focus on the most negative of feelings about this is colouring your view of it.

People are very quick to judge those unsure/against, saying their brainwashed or agreeing with crap but where did those for the vaccine get their information from?

@Br3style

Experts, scientists, HCPs, published data..

No of course not everyone refusing it is "brainwashed" etc etc, but most happily accepting are doing so based on expert advice

“Your body, your choice” is fair enough, but this choice does have implications for the people around you /society as a whole.

I think everybody must have the right to decide for themselves, but if you opt not to get vaccinated you similarly have to accept some undesirable consequences ( like no travel without quarantine) .. it’s the only way for sovereign nations to protect their citizens against you.. there’s precedent anyway, for Years, you wouldn’t be allowed into certain countries without yellow fever vaccinations ..

@MrsTerryPratchett

Again no need to project anger onto people who have made a choice for themselves. Don't see me telling you that you make me sick. No need for these attacks on people.

Why are you just responding to the angry people on here? Many very reasonable people have responded as well. It's possible your focus on the most negative of feelings about this is colouring your view of it.

yes

what do you think of the PPs who have reasonably stated that it's everyone's individual choice, but either way comes with potential drawbacks?

I feel the headline about carers being forced to have it or lose their job was not very nice. They are being forced into a rock and a hard place

It isn’t nice no, but carers work with some of our most vulnerable. If they’re not vaccinated they pose an extra risk which also isn’t nice. It’s a balancing act but ultimately the vulnerable will always take priority because they are limited in protecting themselves so it falls to us to do that for them. A consequence of this may actually end up doing some good if the government is forced to address the shortage of carers we’ve had for years.

Most problems with vaccines happen initially not years down the line.

If you choose not to have it then that’s your choice. But you need to accept there will maybe restrictions on what you can and can’t do.

One of my friends (and many on here) have been part of the vaccine trials. What amazing people these are eh? People that think about the bigger picture.

If everyone refused the vaccine where do you think we would be? Or would you be happy to be either in eternal lockdown or the virus running rife?
Because if everyone refused that’s the alternative.

@Londonmummy00

The most judgement I’ve had is from my mother in law. The others (all my husbands side of the family) i’m sure do talk about my ‘selfish decision’ but luckily don’t say too much to my face. Mother in law (who i usually get on well with) has called me selfish, that I need to do it to protect the vulnerable people (never mind what it could possibly do to harm me!) , it’s ‘people like me’ who are keeping us in this pandemic, amongst other things. Some have been very hurtful and nasty. I also read other people’s comments on here about not getting the vaccine and the comments are 9/10 times extremely rude and insulting. I do not say similar things to people who DO choose the vaccine even though i have plenty i could say but i don’t as i don’t want to cause offence and of course it’s everyone’s individual choice to do what is right for THEM. I was very much against having the vaccine and I have started to soften towards it lately. But people’s nastiness doesn’t make me want to have it, it’s the absolute opposite.

Yes this exactly. Some people i know how just become a bit hysterical. Even people i know who were lifelong friends have fallen out because they disagree on the vaccine. Which i think is so sad. This is why i feel it is sometimes us and them. We should not be pitted against each other.

@speckledostrichegg

People are very quick to judge those unsure/against, saying their brainwashed or agreeing with crap but where did those for the vaccine get their information from?

@Br3style

Experts, scientists, HCPs, published data..

No of course not everyone refusing it is "brainwashed" etc etc, but most happily accepting are doing so based on expert advice

That's fair enough but I do wonder if these people have just checked with experts they've been exposed to via the mass media. Experts that benefit the narrative chosen, Data that has been funded by companies that benefit from money they'll receive. Just concerns me that too many people just point blank believe what they're told via TV but they don't make me feel sick or let down like others have expressed. Thanks for answering.

What is your view about the fact that by choosing not to have the vaccine but wanting the same rights and freedoms of those who have, you would be putting others at greater risk? I think you have every right to choose one of those things (either refusing the vaccine or the freedoms a lower covid risk would provide) but not both.

This stance makes me think about a colleague who didn’t want to risk putting any of their money into the office lottery syndicate so opted out, but felt she should have an equal share of a pretty big win when it occurred, because she was part of the team. The rest of the team had all risked their money and contributed equally.

She took none of the risk, but wanted an equal share of the reward.

Does that sound fair to you?

Replace the risk of buying a ticket with the risk of getting jabbed. Replace sharing a lottery win equally with enjoying the full benefits of society opening up equally. Replace her team with the country.