Time to move on

[Clotsaway]

This virus is here to stay and will always be around. So my question is, do we as a country move on once we are all vaccinated and get on with life as it were pre pandemic. Go out with friends, no face masks, travel Internationally and enjoy holidays, no bubbles at work or school. Not isolating untill we have a negative test ect ect. Or are we OK with going back a step everytime a new mutation pops up.

Personally for me, I think as this is around forever now and eventually will be controlled, I want things to go back to normal normal not go back a few steps if a variant appear. We can't evade them all and eventually one will evade the vaccines to an extent, but to lock the country up as we have and are doing, it's intolerable.

LucilleTheVampireBat

You want the NHS to be fucked. Thats what you want. You applaud it

The NHS left people to die and suffer over the last fifteen months. But plenty of time for tik tok videos

Untrue. And offensive.

@Flaxmeadow no I do not want elderly people to die alone. Our governments seen to that by fucking them all back into care homes. What I would like is my friends cancer treated but that's not happening. 45 and will be lucky to see out the year.

The NHS as an institution are shite. The staff for the most part are amazing and are getting screwed massively.

3 million people excluded from any form of support. In Scotland softplay was closed for 15 months and only now allowed to open in some places. Taxi drivers are protesting in the street because ScotGov haven't distributed the money given.

A deadly pandemic doesn't need a fucking 3.5 million pound media campaign. Or political messaging. People will stay home if they fear for their life.

Get jagged, wash your hands and hope you don't catch it. If you do isolate. If you get long covid lobby these bastard politicians to actually set up clinics to do something about it ? (We don't have them here in Scotland)

So respectfully there is nothing fucking wrong with me.

'The NHS left people to die and suffer over the last fifteen months. But plenty of time for tik tok videos.'

'The NHS' didn't leave anyone to die, totally incorrect and offensive to every hcp reading.

I wonder if there is a direct correlation between the 'enough is enough' wailers, mask refusers and flouters. Going be the depressing stuff I've see on mn it would seem so.

'I just live my life normally as usual.'

So what is your point then? Or are you just actually proving restrictions aren't now actually restricting .

allmegletthesecond why because of some words on a screen?

Yes, once everyone has had the opportunity to have had both jabs, then yes, it would be time to move on as far as possible.

But we're not there yet. Younger adults won't have had both their jabs until around September, so we can't open everything up until then at the earliest.

As for foreign travel, that will depend on other countries. Even if our government allow unlimited foreign travel, we have no control over whether other countries will allow us in/out of their country freely.

So, overall, I think restrictions, to some extent, will be here to stay throughout Summer. Once all adults have been offered both jabs, then we can have a rethink, bearing in mind the vaccine effectiveness against new strains. If it turns out that the vaccines are effective to new strains similar to their effectiveness for existing strains, then I see no need at all for restrictions etc from, say, September onwards.

Those who've chosen not to have their 2 vaccine shots will have to bear their own risks. If they're worried about catching covid, then they'll have to moderate their own activities to reduce risks to whatever level they are comfortable with. And yes, that may involve them having to give up their current jobs if they're not happy to work in what they perceive to be unsafe environments for them.

Once the vaccines have been offered to all adults, and as long as the evidence shows they are effective, then it's time to move on. We can't hold back for the benefit of the few who won't have the vaccine or who have medical conditions meaning the vaccine may not be effective.

@JaniieJones

'The NHS left people to die and suffer over the last fifteen months. But plenty of time for tik tok videos.'

'The NHS' didn't leave anyone to die, totally incorrect and offensive to every hcp reading.

I wonder if there is a direct correlation between the 'enough is enough' wailers, mask refusers and flouters. Going be the depressing stuff I've see on mn it would seem so.

'I just live my life normally as usual.'

So what is your point then? Or are you just actually proving restrictions aren't now actually restricting .

Yes, the NHS did! My OH was mid chemotherapy last March and the NHS just stopped his treatment by a curt phone call on the morning of his regular infusion. That was it. They never contacted him to re-arrange. He had to chase and hassle them for months to get it started again, leaving numerous messages that were never responded to etc.

A deadly pandemic doesn't need a fucking 3.5 million pound media campaign

Well apparently it needs MORE money because the message is STILL not sinking in. That if this virus is allowed to spread uncontrolled then the NHS will collapse.

What do think a sustained 1,800 or more deaths a day of covid would do to the NHS? What would a hospital admission every 30 seconds, or even every 10 seconds, do if that was sustained over weeks or even months?

'why because of some words on a screen?'

Well I'm guessing the pp meant because if some people clearly did not understand the situation and shriek 'fuck the nhs', it may perhaps suggest their inability to understand other things such as the need to follow restrictions and guidance?

'My OH was mid chemotherapy last March and the NHS just stopped his treatment by a curt phone call'

Sorry about your oh. However chemo and life saving treatment did continue in most if not all places. Of course you'll need to put in a complaint and ask for an investigation on why your oh's live saving treatment was stopped.

The NHS has been on the verge of being fucked every winter for the past decade.
The NHS needs a healthy, functioning economy to fund it.
The NHS benefits from a healthy, mentally sound population.

The tunnel visioned approach to Covid is going to fuck an even more underfunded NHS, struggling with the backlog of cases many of which did not have to be stacking up this time last year as pressure eased. There was a better window June-Oct that was neglected. Conditions have worsened as people struggle to get appropriate primary care and suffer on waiting lists which for many will complicate the care required on the NHS.

Covid is merely the icing on the NHS cake. The real problem is lack of capacity for a growing, aging population with chronic poor health, poor recruitment/ training policy (such as scrapping bursaries when training) and under-staffing affecting retention and quality of care.

So if we want to save the NHS long term, let's be freed up to live better and stimulate the economy that funds it.

Sorry about your oh. However chemo and life saving treatment did continue in most if not all places

Agree. A friend of mine had chemo throughout lockdown for breast cancer. I think it is a myth that chemo etc came to a halt during the pandemic. I am not saying services weren't impacted/delayed, but they did not grind to a halt as some have suggested. If you look at the stats that NHS England collects it is clear that people were getting referrals and treatments for cancer throughout the pandemic.

www.england.nhs.uk/statistics/statistical-work-areas/cancer-waiting-times/monthly-prov-cwt/2020-21-monthly-provider-cancer-waiting-times-statistics/

It is complete rubbish to say the NHS did not do all it could to treat people when the capacity was there. I have several friends whose Cancer treatment and then palliative care continued throughout last year, and my DD had two orthopaedic operations in June and October.

It is quite galling as someone in remission like myself to have all these lockdown sceptics suddenly embrace the cause of “poor Cancer patients”, not to be seen when there were real fights to be had on the rationing of treatments, the postcode lottery and lack of focus in research into treatments for secondary Cancer.

@Emilyontmoor

It is complete rubbish to say the NHS did not do all it could to treat people when the capacity was there. I have several friends whose Cancer treatment and then palliative care continued throughout last year, and my DD had two orthopaedic operations in June and October.

It is quite galling as someone in remission like myself to have all these lockdown sceptics suddenly embrace the cause of “poor Cancer patients”, not to be seen when there were real fights to be had on the rationing of treatments, the postcode lottery and lack of focus in research into treatments for secondary Cancer.

But, as my OH was one of the ones who had his cancer treatment cancelled, the continuous of cancer treatments wasn't universal across the board. We know that for a fact. We had four months when he couldn't even talk to his oncologist - phone messages were ignored. We later found out that the entire department had closed down and moved to a different hospital across the county border. But there was no communication to that effect. As with a lot of things, Covid has highlighted the lack of consistency between different service providers in the NHS and other public services. I've no doubt that plenty of people got continued care/treatment. But I have first hand knowledge and experience that some were left behind!

Further to the last, my OH has missed out on an entire course of treatment for his cancer. The second course had barely started last March and was cancelled. Several months later when he finally got to speak to the oncologist, apparently it was too late to continue the second course, so he then had to wait another few months to be put onto the third, and final course of treatment, which finally started 3 months ago. So, he's lost out on an entire course of treatment which may well reduce his lifespan. (This is a non curable cancer, with three different courses of treatment which "treat" the cancer rather than cure it, each course prolonging life by controlling the cancer, so missing out an entire course is pretty bad really!).

100% agree

Yep. The virus will keep on mutating and two vaccine doses are very effective at preventing deaths and hospitalisations of the variants we so far know about. The days of last winter with sky-high hospital admissions are long gone and won't be coming back, because of the vaccines. We can't go on fucking up this country to save a relatively small number of people, as unpalatable as that may be to some.

I'm still fearful that immunisation is not 100% against the variants that we know about, and that a vaccine resistant strain may be around the corner

I'm sorry, but with folk now wanting the impossible this is getting ridiculous, and that's not even allowing for the growing narrative about the entire world needing to be jabbed before anyone's safe - true as a pure theory perhaps, but simply not going to happen

Vaccines are very rarely 100% effective against anything, and while it's true resistant strains may be round the corner - whether it's Covid or something else - it just might be better to have some infrastructure left to deal with it if it happens

And what some will do if a virus arrives here which kills a significant % of the infected beggars imagination

I do not see how we can move on yet - each day we get more information about it and then when scientists have a better idea of what we can and cannot do.
EG the black fungus of Dehli, the other strange side effects cropping up.

I am sure some massive medical break through will come out soon and we will be free, but until then we have to trundle along.

@Puzzledandpissedoff

I'm still fearful that immunisation is not 100% against the variants that we know about, and that a vaccine resistant strain may be around the corner

I'm sorry, but with folk now wanting the impossible this is getting ridiculous, and that's not even allowing for the growing narrative about the entire world needing to be jabbed before anyone's safe - true as a pure theory perhaps, but simply not going to happen

Vaccines are very rarely 100% effective against anything, and while it's true resistant strains may be round the corner - whether it's Covid or something else - it just might be better to have some infrastructure left to deal with it if it happens

And what some will do if a virus arrives here which kills a significant % of the infected beggars imagination

This. This is when we move on, when we ditch the "ooohhhh but the variants" mindset that's been drilled into us.

Are we ready to open up now? No probably not and I'm open to a delay, but you can't define ready as being completely Covid-free.

500k jabs a day for the next 4 weeks + 3 weeks of immunity building would take us to the end of July. (So an extra 14m jabs + even more in the extra 3 weeks)

At that point I really don't see what else we can do as a nation?

'Are we ready to open up now? No probably not and I'm open to a delay, but you can't define ready as being completely Covid-free.'

I believe it has been said repeatedly we will never be completely covid free and that certainly isn't the aim. It is to ensure hospitalisations don't start climbing. At this stage they aren't but after everything we've endured they've got to have the evidence to back it all up. Mumsnetters declaring enough is enough isn't quite what they go on.

Agree 💯

'Fuck the NHS' Like it's some person you find annoying or something

I really don't understand why some of you think we have a choice? There is no choice. Covid cannot run rampant. It will severely affect our infrastructure. I know it's difficult to grasp but covid is a formidable opponent. It's not a case of just saying enough is enough, let people die because we need to save our businesses. We could end up in a very serious situation if covid is allowed to become rife in the world.

@SonnetForSpring

I really don't understand why some of you think we have a choice? There is no choice. Covid cannot run rampant. It will severely affect our infrastructure. I know it's difficult to grasp but covid is a formidable opponent. It's not a case of just saying enough is enough, let people die because we need to save our businesses. We could end up in a very serious situation if covid is allowed to become rife in the world.

Covid won’t ever be running rampant because we now have vaccines.

@southeastdweller We have a lot of people who are not yet vaccinated, who have had only one vaccine, or who have not been vaccinated long enough to get the full benefit.

Also, the BMA is asking for delays to re-opening.

And the WHO is raising the possibility of a further wave in the autumn and winter with a lot more deaths.

So going warily would make more sense right now.