Time to move on

[Clotsaway]

This virus is here to stay and will always be around. So my question is, do we as a country move on once we are all vaccinated and get on with life as it were pre pandemic. Go out with friends, no face masks, travel Internationally and enjoy holidays, no bubbles at work or school. Not isolating untill we have a negative test ect ect. Or are we OK with going back a step everytime a new mutation pops up.

Personally for me, I think as this is around forever now and eventually will be controlled, I want things to go back to normal normal not go back a few steps if a variant appear. We can't evade them all and eventually one will evade the vaccines to an extent, but to lock the country up as we have and are doing, it's intolerable.

@garlictwist

I didn't really know anyone who had covid last year apart from those that worked on the front line but now it's spreading through my friends like wild fire - four of them this week. I do wonder if opening up is the right thing but equally we can't hide away forever.

Same here, ripping through the community like a tornado- schools closed, done because of sick students, some because not enough staff to open… and some of the people testing positive are really sick. Nearly half the children are bedridden, although I would still say most children have no symptoms, and very few are seriously ill. Several staff have been off sick for weeks.

This has not gone away, and no amount of deciding we’ve had enough is going to have the slightest effect.

The virus is not finished with us yet.

Many schools have made masks compulsory again, and most schools where they are not compulsory, they are at least optional.

If you want to get out of this, then secondary children need to be wearing masks. It’s a minor inconvenience. And it will help hugely.

Germans, French, put India on their red lists pretty much same day UK did. They didn't do anything clever UK didn't do to keep Delta out.

Delta variant is already, weeks ago, the overwhelming dominant variant in UK.

www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/06/13/unlock-let-us-live-covid-boris-johnson-urged-advisor-eve-crucial/?WT.mc_id=tmgliveapp_iosshare_AxSm6983VBKn

Johnson's covid divisor has urged him not to delay unlocking as he thinks what we're now seeing is what endemic covid looks like.
I assume he's also stupid and doesn't understand the data though.

*advisor.

1. It only became the dominant variant in terms of being over 50% of new cases in the last couple of weeks
2. UK has far greater links to India than either France or Germany so they did not need to react in the same way
3. We opted not to put India on at the same time as Pakistan despite the obvious risk

It is the government's failure.

I can't see behind Telegraph paywall, who is Johnson's advisor the article is about?

Who is Johnson's covid divisor? I can't read the article or is it the professor Dingwall chap quoted in the title who revealed lockdowns are bad for the economy 🙄.

I can't see behind Telegraph paywall, who is Johnson's advisor the article is about?

Dr Robert Dingwall.
If you are on your phone, if you hit aeroplane mode quickly once the article is loaded you'll be able to read it. He is advising that the re-opening on the 21st proceeds.

Some areas of Spain are starting to give the second dose of az at 11 weeks as more and more cases of delta case are appearing
The other day I also read that Uk sequences 88% of the positives so unless other countries in Europe aren’t sequencing at the same level (which they weren’t few months ago) they might not be aware of delta in their country.

@sleepwouldbenice your comments to @Pennypie were uncalled for. She clearly talked about how someone was denied a funeral in the early days Shes clearly not a Covid minimiser. Im getting sick and tired of the name calling and abuse being used as silencing tactics.

Ah Dr Dingwall. Nope, doesn't ring a bell. Is he in SAGE? Does he suggest the 50% partial vaccinations will hold hospitalisations? If so I do hope he's shared this revelation/guess with Government.

Dr Robert Dingwall sits on NERVTAG and the Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation.

This is what the Telegraph says BJ will do. They are usually bang on the money with their leaked stories from their former juornalist.

www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/06/13/boris-johnson-will-urge-public-accept-one-last-heave-freedom/

In Prof Dingwall they have found a dissenting voice who will no doubt be applauded by their readership.

@lljkk

Germans, French, put India on their red lists pretty much same day UK did. They didn't do anything clever UK didn't do to keep Delta out.

Delta variant is already, weeks ago, the overwhelming dominant variant in UK.

The volume of travel from India is far less into most of europe, hence their low delta cases, despite lower vaccination rates plus a lot of europe were under stricter lockdowns.

Though of course, its also possible they aren't picking up the variant? though with larger capacity health services, much of europe can cope with more hospitalizations.

We have such a huge back log in waiting lists, staff shortages and less beds, its an issue for the UK.

Or as someone recently said "if a pandemic was the most serious threat against the UK, why wasn't the NHS built up for this?"

Would love to move on. Will have to wait until DD has recovered from catching Covid over a year ago and can get out of bed and go downstairs again though! FFS, it is sooooo offensive reading about how desperate people are for life to get back to 'normal' when there are a millions people in the UK suffering from Long Covid!

@BonnesVacances

Would love to move on. Will have to wait until DD has recovered from catching Covid over a year ago and can get out of bed and go downstairs again though! FFS, it is sooooo offensive reading about how desperate people are for life to get back to 'normal' when there are a millions people in the UK suffering from Long Covid!

I’m sorry about your daughter but I don’t understand why you find people’s wish to get normal lives back offensive - restrictions won’t improve her health any faster.

I think what grates people like bonnesvacances is that a lot of people wishing for normal to come back are also minimising the effects of Covid on young people and insisting it is nothing more than a cold/flu. The rush to get back to normal quicker could result in more people suffering with long Covid across the country.

I am sorry for people with long covid - I know a few. But does that mean everyone else has to suspend their lives? Your daughter’s health won’t improve quicker with continued restrictions

@lljkk

Germans, French, put India on their red lists pretty much same day UK did. They didn't do anything clever UK didn't do to keep Delta out.

Delta variant is already, weeks ago, the overwhelming dominant variant in UK.

1. Different countries have different restrictions in play. How did what Germany did BEFORE India went on the red list compare to what the UK did? Let me know when you've researched into that.

2. Just out of curiosity, how many people travelled from India to Germany in the 2 weeks before it was red listed? And how many to the UK?? I assume you must know - nobody would be daft enough to make these kind of comparisons without that kind of data would they? So please share it!

@Roonerspismed

I am sorry for people with long covid - I know a few. But does that mean everyone else has to suspend their lives? Your daughter’s health won’t improve quicker with continued restrictions

Because she's actually considerate enough to think of the impact on other children, rather than simply thinking about herself which many on here seem to be doing.

@herecomesthsun

This is what the Telegraph says BJ will do. They are usually bang on the money with their leaked stories from their former juornalist.

www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/06/13/boris-johnson-will-urge-public-accept-one-last-heave-freedom/

In Prof Dingwall they have found a dissenting voice who will no doubt be applauded by their readership.

See I had a theory a long time ago that the only people who ever went into sociology were those without the intellectual capacity to understand a proper science. Stuff like this simply proves my theory.

Well the vast majority of children won’t get long covid.

But it seems the real pandemic in kids is anxiety and mental health issues. So if we are taking about risks/benefits then at least do it properly.

The mental health issues in teens are utterly horrific. This keeps me up at night in a way that long covid does not

@BonnesVacances

Would love to move on. Will have to wait until DD has recovered from catching Covid over a year ago and can get out of bed and go downstairs again though! FFS, it is sooooo offensive reading about how desperate people are for life to get back to 'normal' when there are a millions people in the UK suffering from Long Covid!

How is that in any way offensive? It's sad your DD has got long covid, just as it is equally sad other people suffer from post viral syndrome from other viruses. Doesn't mean everyone else has to stay restricted though.

unless other countries in Europe are sequencing at the same level [as UK then] they might not be aware of delta in their country.

^ That.

Spain has Delta
France has it.
but mostly they don't know for certain how much they have it

It is the issue of a subjective perspective again, my opinion / view trumps the consensus of scientific expertise, and I will find a 70 year old sociologist with a focus on the mental health issues of the elderly to support them.

Yes post viral syndromes, ME and Fibromyalgia have always been around, and frequently minimised by the medical profession, and starved of research funding, but it is the sheer scale of long Covid that has overwhelmed the medical profession and forced them into acknowledging the need for research. It is a problem on a much bigger scale than it was before. The £18.5m that NICE have directed to research is many times the amount given in the past and there is a reason for that with 1in 10 who have had Covid still experiencing symptoms three months later, over a million people, with prevalence in the 35 to 69 age groups. and in the caring professions.

It is as offensive to minimise the added scale of the issue as it was to minimise post viral fatigue, ME and Fibromyalgia in the past. Our pain clinic is completely overwhelmed, even for a 25 year old with limited mobility as a result of serious metal aggravating the metal in their leg, waiting lists are a year long (and you only get on the waiting list after all other treatment options are exhausted and you have had to deal with chronic pain at a level requiring opioid painkillers for a long period). They don’t even answer the phone.

But you know, let’s just let the virus rip through the unvaccinated young because post viral syndromes have always been with us and it was never an issue before (unless it was you that was debilitated.).