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Delta variant spreading in schools

999 replies

noblegiraffe · 04/06/2021 15:38

Not posted one of these threads in a while but the data is starting to get interesting again.

The ONS infection survey data from yesterday shows an alarming increase in infection rates in secondary kids. The PHE survey also shows a jump in outbreaks in schools.

However the infection rates by area show that this is much more of a problem in the North West than e.g. the South West. That suggests that in certain areas, the situation is really bad and in others there's not (yet) a problem. This would suggest a localised approach (the govt are really keen not to talk about tiers).

What is obvious is that there are local variant hotspots, and in those hotspots, covid is running through schools, secondary in particular.

What to do? Stopping the spread of the variant out from those areas should be a high priority. Surge vaccination of adults won't be enough if it is spreading mostly in children. It's evident that the measures taken to stop the spread in schools from Sept-Dec were inadequate (isolation of close contacts only) so it seems clear that in those areas, far more robust tackling of cases in schools is needed -PCR testing not LFT, sending home whole year groups, proactively closing schools instead of as last resort. Schools in those areas already seem to have kept masks. We need to be hearing far more of what they are doing about schools in the news and what to expect.

There are those who would argue that the Delta variant should simply be allowed to spread now, however we know that one vaccination doesn't confer much immunity to it and it would be more prudent to wait until a much bigger proportion of the population are double-vaccinated and more fully protected.

There is also the question of allowing covid to spread through schools and the disruption to education that this would cause. The government announced yesterday that they are only willing to fund a pitiful amount of catch-up support and given that the schools affected are currently restricted to certain areas (and ones that were badly affected last year too), parents and pupils in those areas should not be expected to experience severe disruption caused by unmitigated covid spread if it can be dealt with more effectively. It would seem fair for more covid catch-up funding to be directed to those areas hardest hit but I haven't seen that proposed.

A few positive things: We've just had half term and that usually reduces infection rates in school children. Y11 and Y13 have now left, so secondary schools will have a reduced number of pupils. It's also less than 2 months to the summer holidays.

The Pfizer vaccine has just been approved in the UK for ages 12+. Vaccinating secondary children in those hotspots as a priority could be an option. Priority vaccinations for school staff there should be a no-brainer, I assume that has happened.

Unfortunately the government is currently suppressing data on the number of cases of the Delta variant in schools and there is a legal challenge to get this published. Why they are doing this is unclear. I do hope it's not because they want to pretend that schools aren't an issue until it's too late like they did before, but I don't trust them, for obvious reasons.

Delta variant spreading in schools
Delta variant spreading in schools
Delta variant spreading in schools
OP posts:
Thread gallery
13
Whatshouldicallme · 09/06/2021 17:02

@Malteser71

"Really thought they would run out of beds in the first wave. They actually ended up taking patients from city 90 miles away."

Are you serious? Maybe some hospitals weren't overwhelmed, but some really were.

Even if this is true, obviously the other hospital (and most of the others in between) were quite stretched or wouldn't have been shipping critically ill patients 90 miles away.

carolinesbaby · 09/06/2021 17:12

So we are all agreed that there is Covid in schools, and we are all aware that mitigation measures could have been taken but weren't and the government won't pay for them.
So what's the solution? What do you suggest is done now, given that there's no money?

Appuskidu · 09/06/2021 17:14

What do you suggest is done now, given that there's no money?

Not all mitigations have to cost money. Why not have masks back in classrooms for all until the end of term?

noblegiraffe · 09/06/2021 17:16

Masks didn't cost the govt any money?

But also claiming there's no money when schools ask for it is a lie. We know it's a lie because the government have found money for so many other covid-related projects.

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SomeKindOfFloppyWeirdo · 09/06/2021 17:24

Like the huge amount they spent in their ridiculous “schools are safe (despite us doing nothing to achieve this)” campaign that would have been much better spent on a “masks/ventilation make schools safe” campaign.

itsgettingwierd · 09/06/2021 17:30

@hazelnutcrackers

Everyone remotely vulnerable has been vaccinated. The vaccines work. If they don't work, we shouldnt be being encouraged to have them and we certainly shouldn't be allowing children to have them. So vaccines work and everyone who remotely needs them has been offered them. There is no earthly reason to care one jot about cases, any more than we care about having a cold.
But they haven't all been fully vaccinated yet.

Everyone groups 1-6 had their first by end of April. They won't have their second for a few weeks and then there is 3 weeks to take full effect.

My 16yo ds is group 6 and only had his first. He's in education.

It's worrying people cannot accept there are vulnerable not fully vaccinated people in schools and colleges.

itsgettingwierd · 09/06/2021 17:35

And people are still ignoring the fact that allowing it to run through schools unchecked causes disruption to education.

It's not about illness or seriousness of illness. It's about the detrimental affect on young people in a holistic way.

They have a right to be in school - we have a responsibility to make that possible as much as we can.

WaverleyPirate · 09/06/2021 17:47

Exactly itsgettingwierd.

  1. There are still vulnerable people who are not vaccinated.
  2. If students and teachers get covid then lots of other children end up missing out on education again.

All people want are safety precautions.

carolinesbaby · 09/06/2021 18:04

noblegiraffe that lie is the responsibility of the government not me.

And for the record, again, I am not against masks in schools.

ICanSmellSummerComing · 09/06/2021 18:13

Masks are so simple and easy, it should be an on off quick thing, eg Indian varient, masks back on, law.
Calms down, masks off.
At the very minimum!!
Why can't it be that simple.
Each student should have to show the results of lat flow test before setting foot in school
Except for exempt people.

ZZTopGuitarSolo · 09/06/2021 18:14

@Malteser71

Stats I gave on ITU figures were not ‘anecdata.’

Living with DH as ITU consultant, they are definitely the figures from his large teaching hospital. Really thought they would run out of beds in the first wave. They actually ended up taking patients from city 90 miles away.

That's great that his large teaching hospital wasn't overwhelmed, but it does not in any way prove that hospitals generally weren't overwhelmed, hence referring to it as anecdata.

If anything the fact that his hospital had to take patients from 90 miles away confirms that some hospitals were overwhelmed.

My family/friends' local hospital was overwhelmed, also anecdata.

ZZTopGuitarSolo · 09/06/2021 18:19

[quote Whatshouldicallme]@ZZTopGuitarSolo

The school mitigation measures definitely look better in the US, but I think the higher rate of vaccine hesitancy might be a problem eventually. The reason the US is able to offer vaccines to anyone who wants one is because there is a significant proportion who are not taking it up. The UK has had to work down the groups more slowly because most people eligible are taking it up.[/quote]
Yes I agree.

It will be interesting to see what happens in winter, when we compare states with low vaccine uptake with states that have high vaccine uptake. We may even see some interesting differences before that, as the Delta variant takes hold.

It will also be interesting to see which states mandate the Covid vaccine for middle and high schoolers.

ZZTopGuitarSolo · 09/06/2021 18:21

Thanks @noblegiraffe for starting this thread. My kids school has done really well/been very lucky so far. I think it helps that the head is terrified of covid.

The principal at my kids' high school lost both parents to Covid right at the start of the outbreak. They were in their 70s and healthy.

BlackeyedSusan · 09/06/2021 18:50

Absolutely Regulus.

Ds missed 6 weeks of school due to covid in the autumn term.

he missed another 6 days due to being a contact of a case in the family, and a further 6 days after being in contact with a case in school.

42 school days of missed education this year. (just over 8 weeks worth.) and due to sen he does not work at home apart from what I can sneak in.

Squidlydoo · 09/06/2021 18:52

Over the last three days, we have had 4 confirmed cases in one year 8 class in school. 22 of the 30 students have been instructed to self isolate and yet the PHE guidance is we should NOT shut the bubble/class until there is 5 cases!

This does not make any sense to me!

(Class spend every lesson as one consistent group!)

June2021 · 09/06/2021 18:54

@Delatron

Deaths down by 50% this week. Since we were working in percentages earlier with cases. 12 last week, 6 this week.

The Delta variant has been around for a while now. This is more evidence the vaccines are working as they should.

.....
DinkyDaisy · 09/06/2021 18:56

I work in a school and am isolating as a contact. Waiting for results of child's pcr. If negative, assume we can all go back to school?
I am negative and had both vaccinations.

noblegiraffe · 09/06/2021 18:56

Deaths going down doesn't solve the problem of disruption to children's education if covid is allowed to run through schools.

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Wakemeuuuup · 09/06/2021 19:02

@ZZTopGuitarSolo

Thanks @noblegiraffe for starting this thread. My kids school has done really well/been very lucky so far. I think it helps that the head is terrified of covid.

The principal at my kids' high school lost both parents to Covid right at the start of the outbreak. They were in their 70s and healthy.

I'm so sorry to hear this. Stupid, horrible virus.
TheHoneyBadger · 09/06/2021 19:17

Can you imagine mn office workers reaction if 4 out of 30 of their colleagues who all worked together in a 7m square room had tested positive for covid but they were being told they still had to go into work without masks or sd until one more person tested positive?

itsgettingwierd · 09/06/2021 19:18

@noblegiraffe

Deaths going down doesn't solve the problem of disruption to children's education if covid is allowed to run through schools.
This.

Which we've all said about 600 times over 🤷‍♀️🤦‍♀️

Delatron · 09/06/2021 19:22

Reading an article on another thread. Scientists are actually very worried about young children this coming winter. Not for Covid but RSV and also flu. There’s no vaccine for RSV but there is for Covid. And we know, thankfully that Covid is mild for most children (I know there are exceptions). Kids haven’t been exposed to the usual bugs going around and for young children in particular this could be problematic.

I think isolation in schools because of Covid will stop once we reach a certain vaccine threshold. So that disruption will end.

Children will get ill from many things but with all the over 18s vaccinated at some point soon I think Covid will become less problematic. It won’t spread around the parents or teachers so that chain of transmission will be broken. We’re not quite there yet I know. But we are in the last term and unfortunately I don’t think any mitigations that are wanted will be reinstated. Maybe masks for hot spot areas but that’s it.

I guess we all look at things in a different way but I for one I’m very thankful that children seem largely unaffected by Covid. That’s as a whole. I know some individual experiences are different but you find that with all illnesses. It’s not like measles for children. The demographic is that it is more serious in the elderly and you can’t argue with that.

cantkeepawayforever · 09/06/2021 19:26

@DinkyDaisy

I work in a school and am isolating as a contact. Waiting for results of child's pcr. If negative, assume we can all go back to school? I am negative and had both vaccinations.
Do you mean that you are isolating as a contact of a child who is ill / has tested positive on LFT but is now awaiting the results of a confirmatory PCR?

If so, and as long as there is no other reason why you are isolating, then yes, a negative PCR for the child who caused the isolation will allow you to return to school. What doesn't release you is YOU having a negative PCR.

Piggywaspushed · 09/06/2021 19:28

And with that sage advice, the thread ends.

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