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Delta variant spreading in schools

999 replies

noblegiraffe · 04/06/2021 15:38

Not posted one of these threads in a while but the data is starting to get interesting again.

The ONS infection survey data from yesterday shows an alarming increase in infection rates in secondary kids. The PHE survey also shows a jump in outbreaks in schools.

However the infection rates by area show that this is much more of a problem in the North West than e.g. the South West. That suggests that in certain areas, the situation is really bad and in others there's not (yet) a problem. This would suggest a localised approach (the govt are really keen not to talk about tiers).

What is obvious is that there are local variant hotspots, and in those hotspots, covid is running through schools, secondary in particular.

What to do? Stopping the spread of the variant out from those areas should be a high priority. Surge vaccination of adults won't be enough if it is spreading mostly in children. It's evident that the measures taken to stop the spread in schools from Sept-Dec were inadequate (isolation of close contacts only) so it seems clear that in those areas, far more robust tackling of cases in schools is needed -PCR testing not LFT, sending home whole year groups, proactively closing schools instead of as last resort. Schools in those areas already seem to have kept masks. We need to be hearing far more of what they are doing about schools in the news and what to expect.

There are those who would argue that the Delta variant should simply be allowed to spread now, however we know that one vaccination doesn't confer much immunity to it and it would be more prudent to wait until a much bigger proportion of the population are double-vaccinated and more fully protected.

There is also the question of allowing covid to spread through schools and the disruption to education that this would cause. The government announced yesterday that they are only willing to fund a pitiful amount of catch-up support and given that the schools affected are currently restricted to certain areas (and ones that were badly affected last year too), parents and pupils in those areas should not be expected to experience severe disruption caused by unmitigated covid spread if it can be dealt with more effectively. It would seem fair for more covid catch-up funding to be directed to those areas hardest hit but I haven't seen that proposed.

A few positive things: We've just had half term and that usually reduces infection rates in school children. Y11 and Y13 have now left, so secondary schools will have a reduced number of pupils. It's also less than 2 months to the summer holidays.

The Pfizer vaccine has just been approved in the UK for ages 12+. Vaccinating secondary children in those hotspots as a priority could be an option. Priority vaccinations for school staff there should be a no-brainer, I assume that has happened.

Unfortunately the government is currently suppressing data on the number of cases of the Delta variant in schools and there is a legal challenge to get this published. Why they are doing this is unclear. I do hope it's not because they want to pretend that schools aren't an issue until it's too late like they did before, but I don't trust them, for obvious reasons.

Delta variant spreading in schools
Delta variant spreading in schools
Delta variant spreading in schools
OP posts:
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13
cantkeepawayforever · 08/06/2021 21:07

And we know that tier teachers will half-kill themselves trying to deliver remote education, often at the same time as teaching fluctuating numbers in the classroom while also working out TAGs from incomplete data. However, it's still clear that this is VERY different from areas of the country where most children will manage the full 6-7 weeks f2f.

cantkeepawayforever · 08/06/2021 21:10

Literally people are planning summer holidays and theme parks

which they DEFINITELY won't get if

kids shouldn't have to isolate at all

It's really clear from heat maps that infections that start in school age children then spread into parental age groups - and in most areas, only the well over 50s have the full vaccination + 3 weeks that is effective against the Delta variant.

TheHoneyBadger · 08/06/2021 21:13

If 1 in 3 kids in London were out of school that would be headline news and we'd have national action.

Is it an, oh well, it's only Bolton and it's probably all those multigenerational households type shrug from media and the political class?

MilesJuppIsMyBitch · 08/06/2021 21:14

@TheHoneyBadger

If 1 in 3 kids in London were out of school that would be headline news and we'd have national action.

Is it an, oh well, it's only Bolton and it's probably all those multigenerational households type shrug from media and the political class?

Truth
ICanSmellSummerComing · 08/06/2021 21:14

Practising it's made an absolute mockery of the holiday fuss it really has, my 13 year old used to be so worried about missing any school, worried about being in trouble etc and she's jaded now after her school experience over lock down.

Re give it a rest noble, this is a chat forum, I personally dislike it when a poster is pilled on for expression opinions.

I've not seen exactly eye to eye on nobles points over covid but I agree with most of them and I also deeply appreciate her work on schools /staff... And what it's been like going into crammed classrooms without any protection when people like jenny harries have said "where masks where you can't sd but don't worry about school".

No government has perfectly re acted to covid but its clear ours had absolutely no bloody clue when it kicked off in February.

Nobles stance and posts shine a light on the reality in schools.

CallmeHendricks · 08/06/2021 21:15

@PracticingPerson

I just love that taking your kids out of school for a family holiday destroys their education, but being sent home to isolate repeatedly doesn't matter at all...
Can you point to any poster on here who has said that isolations don't matter? Even just one poster?

"No idea the obsession with knowing about whats going on in other schools"
"people on here flapping like headless chickens"

You really have got very odd reading comprehension skills. I can't see anyone "obsessed" or "flapping."

cantkeepawayforever · 08/06/2021 21:17

@TheHoneyBadger

If 1 in 3 kids in London were out of school that would be headline news and we'd have national action.

Is it an, oh well, it's only Bolton and it's probably all those multigenerational households type shrug from media and the political class?

Oh yes.

Blackburn with Darwin had 15% absence in primary, 13.1% absence in secondary due to Covid - and unlike Bolton, their rates are still going up very very rapidly. Middlesborough, which hasn't even featured in the news, hit 22.1%.

CallmeHendricks · 08/06/2021 21:18

The main difference between a whole bubble isolating (as opposed to one child going on a term-time holiday), is that the provision given to the whole class is equal. If one child is out (on holiday), the others are forging on ahead without them.

TheHoneyBadger · 08/06/2021 21:19

Err we look to other schools for lots of things - best practice, poor practice, what behaviour strategies they've applied etc. Then there's things like league tables where the government is obsessed with comparing what's going on in other schools.

How odd to think that teachers shouldn't be interested in other schools Hmm

ICanSmellSummerComing · 08/06/2021 21:20

I'm worried about my dd although to be fair they had one case a while ago. I'm wondering if things kicked off whether I should let her stay off seeing as she's moving school anyway for Sept?

CallmeHendricks · 08/06/2021 21:21

And if the schools in my immediate vicinity have kids going down like ninepins with Covid, then we sure as hell need to know about it, as they're likely all mixing at brownies and swimming out of school.

cantkeepawayforever · 08/06/2021 21:22

Watapalava,

For those of us who work in schools, knowing what is happening in other schools is useful. I am instructed to keep my mobile phone with me at all times in school, ready to shut my bubble down immediately should a positive case be reported. Knowing whether that is unlikely (March / April 2021) or very likely indeed (November / December 2020), or increasingly likely (June 2021 - waiting on PCRs to confirm positive LFTs overnight) is really helpful, especially because remote learning has to be planned very differently from in-school learning so the extent to which I parallel plan for every lesson depends on how likely i am to need each variant.

As the media does not report school cases, hearing from colleagues, on social media or on specialist school news media such as Schoolsweek is the only way to get even vaguely decent information.

WaverleyPirate · 08/06/2021 21:22

When a third of children are off school isolating in a hotspot and it is spreading out to adjoining authorities, then I would hope that parents might want to bring in measures to stop it happening in their own areas.

I wouldn't have thought people want their children sent home again.

TheHoneyBadger · 08/06/2021 21:22

Messy in the north then. I'm in east midlands 'ish' and so far it's happening around us in other schools in neighbouring counties but touch wood we've only had a few out so far this term and at this stage they don't have contacts in school as it's cases caught over the holidays.

I am interested in what's going on in other schools and other regions - I don't think that's odd at all. I'm certainly not flapping. Pretty fucking unflappable after the year we've had. Best touch wood again.

cantkeepawayforever · 08/06/2021 21:24

@CallmeHendricks

The main difference between a whole bubble isolating (as opposed to one child going on a term-time holiday), is that the provision given to the whole class is equal. If one child is out (on holiday), the others are forging on ahead without them.
However, as part of the Covd Hokey-Cokey, it's really comon for a couple of children to be out each week due to family cases, but for the rest of the bubble to be in school, which gives rise to exactly the same issues as holiday absence since effectively delivering f2f and home leanring simultaneously is very hard, especially in Primary.
CallmeHendricks · 08/06/2021 21:24

Yeah, but Honey, accusing us of "flapping" hysterically is another attempt to ridicule us into shutting the fuck up.

We won't be silenced.

CallmeHendricks · 08/06/2021 21:26

That's very tru,e can't but it can't be helped (unlike a holiday) but I haven't seen anyone on here saying it's OK, as the pp suggested.

TheHoneyBadger · 08/06/2021 21:26

But it's all ok because gavver's here to save the day moaning on about school lunchtimes being too short Confused

itsgettingwierd · 08/06/2021 21:35

@TheHoneyBadger

If 1 in 3 kids in London were out of school that would be headline news and we'd have national action.

Is it an, oh well, it's only Bolton and it's probably all those multigenerational households type shrug from media and the political class?

Sad but true
itsgettingwierd · 08/06/2021 21:38

Why wouldn't you want children isolating at all?

Are you seriously happy that all unvaccinated teachers and people in the community they meet on the way are put in risk?

The bus drivers, the newsagents, the public on buses or trains?

We know the cases in hospital are Genaro those unvaccinated or who have only had 1 vaccine.

So why would you want 350 odd students passing it to another 700 odd and all their contacts - which will then pass onto people who the vaccine won't work for or who are not protected enough yet.

I actually know you're being a wind up now though. Because as much as you hear about people like you who think inflicting pain in others is ok and should be encouraged I'm pretty convinced they don't actually exist as a real entity.

It's just easy to pretend on the internet.

itsgettingwierd · 08/06/2021 21:39

@TheHoneyBadger

But it's all ok because gavver's here to save the day moaning on about school lunchtimes being too short Confused
And last week their tsar wanted them shorter!

He quit because they refused to fund his catch up programme.

So of course they'll now want the opposite to make out the funding refusal was due to it being a bad idea!

Watapalava · 08/06/2021 21:45

not all groups have had vaccine but those at any real risk have had it

most in hospital now are not seriously ill

Data shows they're in/out within days. Those unvaccinated and at risk - well - no sympathy and no i don't think we should have any restrictions because they couldn't be arsed taking vaccine when offered - those in Bolton were largely eligible - they werent some 25 yer old healthy teacher

Unvaccinated teachers have more chance of being hit by a bus so yes i don't care if kids pass to them as they're so far down the vaccine list they are not at risk. God i'm mid 40s and don't give it second thought

CallmeHendricks · 08/06/2021 21:48

"Unvaccinated teachers have more chance of being hit by a bus" .... than what? Getting Long Covid?
Source for evidence, please.

cantkeepawayforever · 08/06/2021 21:49

Why wouldn't you want children isolating at all?

My understanding (if you can call it that) is that people who believe this think:

  • Few young people die of Covid and CEV young people don't matter
  • Everybody has been vaccinated is 100% protected. If for some unbelievable reason vaccination ISN'T 100% effective, those who weren't well protected don't matter.
  • The current rates of death are unchangeable, and will continue at exactly the same level even if cases skyrocket.
  • Teachers and school staff are acceptable collateral damage for children being in school
  • Serious illness or long term disability doesn't matter, death is the only useful metric
  • Any personal stories of illness or death of school staff are not credible
  • Children being in school is more important than them being taught by familiar, qualified teachers.
  • It doesn't matter if their normal staff are ill for weeks / months, as long as the child is in a classroom nothing else matters.
  • Young people are wholly unaffected by the illness or death of older people or the CEV, even if those are their relatives, but are unable to cope with a week of home learning.

Or something.

cantkeepawayforever · 08/06/2021 21:50

@CallmeHendricks

"Unvaccinated teachers have more chance of being hit by a bus" .... than what? Getting Long Covid? Source for evidence, please.
I seem to remember that this was debunked by More or Less about a year ago?