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Delta variant spreading in schools

999 replies

noblegiraffe · 04/06/2021 15:38

Not posted one of these threads in a while but the data is starting to get interesting again.

The ONS infection survey data from yesterday shows an alarming increase in infection rates in secondary kids. The PHE survey also shows a jump in outbreaks in schools.

However the infection rates by area show that this is much more of a problem in the North West than e.g. the South West. That suggests that in certain areas, the situation is really bad and in others there's not (yet) a problem. This would suggest a localised approach (the govt are really keen not to talk about tiers).

What is obvious is that there are local variant hotspots, and in those hotspots, covid is running through schools, secondary in particular.

What to do? Stopping the spread of the variant out from those areas should be a high priority. Surge vaccination of adults won't be enough if it is spreading mostly in children. It's evident that the measures taken to stop the spread in schools from Sept-Dec were inadequate (isolation of close contacts only) so it seems clear that in those areas, far more robust tackling of cases in schools is needed -PCR testing not LFT, sending home whole year groups, proactively closing schools instead of as last resort. Schools in those areas already seem to have kept masks. We need to be hearing far more of what they are doing about schools in the news and what to expect.

There are those who would argue that the Delta variant should simply be allowed to spread now, however we know that one vaccination doesn't confer much immunity to it and it would be more prudent to wait until a much bigger proportion of the population are double-vaccinated and more fully protected.

There is also the question of allowing covid to spread through schools and the disruption to education that this would cause. The government announced yesterday that they are only willing to fund a pitiful amount of catch-up support and given that the schools affected are currently restricted to certain areas (and ones that were badly affected last year too), parents and pupils in those areas should not be expected to experience severe disruption caused by unmitigated covid spread if it can be dealt with more effectively. It would seem fair for more covid catch-up funding to be directed to those areas hardest hit but I haven't seen that proposed.

A few positive things: We've just had half term and that usually reduces infection rates in school children. Y11 and Y13 have now left, so secondary schools will have a reduced number of pupils. It's also less than 2 months to the summer holidays.

The Pfizer vaccine has just been approved in the UK for ages 12+. Vaccinating secondary children in those hotspots as a priority could be an option. Priority vaccinations for school staff there should be a no-brainer, I assume that has happened.

Unfortunately the government is currently suppressing data on the number of cases of the Delta variant in schools and there is a legal challenge to get this published. Why they are doing this is unclear. I do hope it's not because they want to pretend that schools aren't an issue until it's too late like they did before, but I don't trust them, for obvious reasons.

Delta variant spreading in schools
Delta variant spreading in schools
Delta variant spreading in schools
OP posts:
Thread gallery
13
CallmeHendricks · 04/06/2021 16:06

@Sunnyfreezesushi

I think all teachers should have to have the vaccine, make it compulsory (ducks...)
I've had both, and so have all my nearest and dearest, so it's no skin off my nose. However, parents of children in the age groups who seem to be most affected currently, according to those figures the Government has allowed to be published anyway, might not feel the same way.
noblegiraffe · 04/06/2021 16:08

@Delatron

It’s as though it’s January and we don’t have vaccines. Oh wait..
I addressed that in my post. Did you not read it?
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ChloeDecker · 04/06/2021 16:09

@Delatron

It’s as though it’s January and we don’t have vaccines. Oh wait..
Not everyone is vaccinated or fully vaccinated who work in schools and they have also just published research from the U.K. that the Pfizer does not protect very much against the Delta variant.
Sunnyfreezesushi · 04/06/2021 16:10

Parents were told previously that children would be allowed to lateral flow test daily instead of isolating if a classmate tested positive? What happened to that? If anything, children and working parents are still bearing the brunt of this. I know several children who had to self isolate last minute over the half term (London).

I agree teachers and secondary aged pupils should be offered the vaccine but nobody should be forced to have it. We already have very high vaccination rates compared to many other countries. I don’t think there should be any pressure on eg pregnant teachers to be vaccinated. I think that one is going to be hard for head teachers come the autumn term. Will have to see how the NHS deal with it - pre vaccine some were off last few weeks to “shield” in pregnancy.
If hospitalisation and death rates don’t increase I simply don’t know how I feel about herd immunity amongst children and adolescents, nobody actually knows for sure if getting the virus young is actually better for you in the long term vs vaccine.

Delatron · 04/06/2021 16:10

Well Covid will be here forever so what are your suggestion? Shut the schools because some people are unable to get vaccinated?
Ridiculous

noblegiraffe · 04/06/2021 16:12

Delatron can you actually read my OP before asking more questions that have already been answered?

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Delatron · 04/06/2021 16:12

You’re assuming it will spread like wild fire through the schools. Well we haven’t seen this happen. Of course cases will go up amongst unvaccinated people as we open up. We can’t stay in lockdown forever. Unless it impacts the NHS and overwhelms it the government won’t do anything.

noblegiraffe · 04/06/2021 16:13

You’re assuming it will spread like wild fire through the schools. Well we haven’t seen this happen

Dear god. Read the OP.

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Saucery · 04/06/2021 16:13

@Delatron

Well Covid will be here forever so what are your suggestion? Shut the schools because some people are unable to get vaccinated? Ridiculous
It’s a crazy thought but, could they just make sure everyone in areas of concern be vaccinated? You know, organise some clinics, visit schools to vaccinate staff, particularly those waiting for 2nd vaccinations.....
ChloeDecker · 04/06/2021 16:13

Well Covid will be here forever so what are your suggestion? Shut the schools because some people are unable to get vaccinated?
Ridiculous

Can you please just read?! You are making yourself look silly.

Better ventilation in schools perhaps? Air purifiers bought? Better quarantine procedures from those who have been abroad and better track and trace for those who catch it here? Just a start.

Delatron · 04/06/2021 16:14

Maybe start the thread if and when this becomes an issue and hospitals are overwhelmed because Covid is spreading in schools....

As it stands it looks like everything is still opening up on the 21st. So if people can go to nightclubs I’m guessing schools will be ok.

ChloeDecker · 04/06/2021 16:15

@Delatron

Maybe start the thread if and when this becomes an issue and hospitals are overwhelmed because Covid is spreading in schools....

As it stands it looks like everything is still opening up on the 21st. So if people can go to nightclubs I’m guessing schools will be ok.

Again. Please read. The Guardian is reporting today exactly that in certain areas. Hmm
ineedaholidaynow · 04/06/2021 16:16

Our local academy trust looked at ventilation systems for some of the classrooms that have really inadequate ventilation but didn’t have the budget for them. Pity the Government couldn’t help with that

Delatron · 04/06/2021 16:17

@ChloeDecker no you’re making yourself sound stupid. Have you seen the roadmap? Those things in schools won’t be happening. You’ll need to move on and live with Covid. It will be endemic and like all the other viral illnesses circulating.

Thankfully we have vaccines and children are the age group least affected by Covid.

RedcurrantPuff · 04/06/2021 16:17

Cases in Scotland are worse than anywhere else in the U.K. and we still have masks in schools. Wonder how much impact they are having

1000 cases in Scotland alone today.

ChloeDecker · 04/06/2021 16:17

Parents were told previously that children would be allowed to lateral flow test daily instead of isolating if a classmate tested positive? What happened to that?

LFTs were not designed for that and too unreliable in many trials, so PHE quickly overruled Gavin on that one. This was way back in January though so was never the case when schools started testing on 8th March.

ChloeDecker · 04/06/2021 16:17

@RedcurrantPuff

Cases in Scotland are worse than anywhere else in the U.K. and we still have masks in schools. Wonder how much impact they are having

1000 cases in Scotland alone today.

Imagine how many more cases there would be if no masks.
Delatron · 04/06/2021 16:18

Better track and trace? Ha you’re having a laugh. And we know the quarantine system is a shambles.

But yes all those things would be lovely. They just won’t happen. Maybe a reality check for some posters would be a good thing.

itsgettingwierd · 04/06/2021 16:18

@Regulus

why the govt are not keeping proper tracks on families completing quarantine

Not forgetting all those currently in Portugal over half term arriving back before Tuesday quarantine change.

Yeah I have to admit I did think the Tuesday date was "convenient"
ineedaholidaynow · 04/06/2021 16:19

Good ventilation in schools would be nice with or without COVID.

noblegiraffe · 04/06/2021 16:19

Parents were told previously that children would be allowed to lateral flow test daily instead of isolating if a classmate tested positive? What happened to that?

They are running trials in 200 schools but have not, so far, published the data.

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itsgettingwierd · 04/06/2021 16:20

@Delatron

It’s as though it’s January and we don’t have vaccines. Oh wait..
Lots of school staff still aren't vaccinated and neither are school children.

So as much as you want to ignore it - schools aren't that far off January in terms of vaccines

ChloeDecker · 04/06/2021 16:20

[quote Delatron]@ChloeDecker no you’re making yourself sound stupid. Have you seen the roadmap? Those things in schools won’t be happening. You’ll need to move on and live with Covid. It will be endemic and like all the other viral illnesses circulating.

Thankfully we have vaccines and children are the age group least affected by Covid.[/quote]
Firstly, I am living with Covid. Still going to work massless as told to. Are you? Or do you work from home?

Secondly, nope. Just you yourself looking silly by stating nonsense that has already been discussed. You can try and play the old switcheroo ‘oh but the roadmap’ but it won’t stop people wanting to discuss something.

RedcurrantPuff · 04/06/2021 16:21

Hmm well if Scotland with masks in schools has a higher proportion of cases than England without them maybe we’d have less cases with no masks.

itsgettingwierd · 04/06/2021 16:22

@Delatron

Well Covid will be here forever so what are your suggestion? Shut the schools because some people are unable to get vaccinated? Ridiculous
My personal suggestion is you read noble very well presented case above.

It's very balanced and isn't just a knee jerk reaction based on personal opinion.

You don't want schools to close - no body does.

But ignoring the data won't be the way to achieve this.