Genuine question for anti-Vaxxers

[kiddo5467]

So I have a question for SOME of the people who are against the vaccine.

It's not really relevant for those who don't want the vaccine as they don't believe it's been tested enough and don't want to be injected with something they don't know enough about. That's not my personal view but I can at least understand the rationale behind it and see why it would out some people off.

However, I've seen more & more people posting online about it being a 'conspiracy' and the government conning us all into getting the vaccine to suit their own agenda. This is what o can't get my head around. Do some people believe the government are trying to inject us with something negative to achieve some other hidden objective? If so, what do they think they're trying to achieve? Is everyone that's had the vaccine going to be wiped out? Unable to re-produce? Be tracked but some strange fluid in our bodies??

I'm not trying to antagonise anyone, I'd genuinely like to understand what people who believe the vaccine is part of a conspiracy, believe the conspiracy is?

[quote hollyangel]@Pumperthepumper

I can't quote your post for some reason, but you said the following:

''I don’t think racism comes into play when looking at the origins of the virus...''

But then you said: ''No, I don’t think it’s ‘not a racist issue’, I think it’s ridiculous to pretend one is more racist than the other, to the extent you believe in a cover up, when the much more likely answer is ‘lack of credible evidence’.'' So you're contradicting yourself. You're also being oddly rude with your tone towards me, not really sure why. So I think we'll agree to disagree.[/quote]
I’ll quote the rest of that post for you:

and just to explain to you FURTHER I don’t think either one is more racist than the other. I don’t think racism comes into play when looking at the origins of the virus, which is why I can’t see a reason the media hmm would cover up a credible lab theory link because the wet markets don’t paint anyone in a good light either

You can ignore the sighs and eye-rolls, that’s just how another poster likes to communicate so they were for their benefit.

So I actually said the same thing twice. I’m not sure where I’ve been rude to you.

@Pumperthepumper I never said it was a cover up! I said if may turn out that there was a cover up, which is as valid a current theory as the theory that the Wuhan market starting it all.

@SomeKindOfFloppyWeirdo

I completely agree with this and apologies if it seemed that I was conflating 'China' with anyone of Asian heritage. To me, it seems obvious that anyone of Asian heritage has nothing to do with the behaviour of the Chinese government. However, unfortunately this is not how it plays out, particularly in America and depending on the language used by politicians and media, it can lead to heightened tensions and issues for Asians who have to deal with bigotry and racist remarks or attacks.

Is there any proof of that Samantha ? Or is it just another “seed” to make people think badly of the CCP? (Not that they don’t do enough themselves.)

Because that’s exactly the sort of statement that riles up anti-Asian abuse (unfortunately many aren’t intelligent enough to tell the difference between “the CCP” and “Chinese people/people of Asian heritage”.)

holly I definitely didn’t think you were conflating the two, sorry if I made you think that! Completely agree with your point about how language is used by politicians and the media. It’s a powerful tool and too often a weapon.

This is one of Fauci’s emails that seems to be enraging the masses in certain conspiracy corners of the internet.

“See?? He’s a liar!” they wail. But he’s not saying anything different to what we already know - that masks are better at protecting people around the wearer than the wearer themselves. How is that controversial?

There also wasn’t a great deal of knowledge about masks at the start of the pandemic (in the west at least). This email is dated February 2020, before the pandemic was technically even a pandemic. So months later, as now-essential research on masks has improved, and cases have increased to the point where masks would be necessary, the message from scientists changes. That’s progress, not conspiracy.

by transfecting it with different genetic sequences, there's lots of difference hypothetical ways this could be achieved. In practise normally you just end up with all your viral particles inviable.

Would this not be easy to find out if it’s been tampered with?
If you took the genetic code of the virus in a bat and from a human surely you’d be able to tell if it mutated naturally or someone has physically modified it?

I'm not sure about the CCP encouraging the lab leak. I'll need to wait and see.

So why post it if it’s completely unfounded? What on earth is the point, if not to stir up suspicion about something that may end up not being true?

Also that entire Twitter account you linked is a conspiracy ridden dumpster fire. The kind of baseless shit that gets my son beaten up at school for “looking Asian”. So forgive me if I call it the bullshit it is.

@SomeKindOfFloppyWeirdo See, masking mandates is another theory that I feel was highly politicised and became a them and us situation.
We can now see from lots of data that countries and states with vastly different policies on masks and also lockdowns, had broadly similar Covid deaths. California and Florida is an interesting comparison, with California a very liberal, Democrat state and then Florida with a Republican Governor who is very anti-masks and lockdowns.
Masking is very political in America and many people have stated how happy they were to wear masks as it clearly showed them Trump voters that they could avoid.

@SomeKindOfFloppyWeirdo I'm really sorry that happened to your son in school, that's just terrible.

What puzzles me is why so many people are bothering to concoct mad conspiracy theories and 'tragedies' from pieced together, redacted, non-peer-reviewed leftfield science when there are actual real-life human tragedies occurring every day. This isn't an episode of Inspector Montalbano. It makes me very angry actually.

@Aalvarino

What puzzles me is why so many people are bothering to concoct mad conspiracy theories and 'tragedies' from pieced together, redacted, non-peer-reviewed leftfield science when there are actual real-life human tragedies occurring every day. This isn't an episode of Inspector Montalbano. It makes me very angry actually.

@Aalvarino The problem is, who gets to decide what is a conspiracy theory? We've seen from this entire discussion on the lab leak issue, that deciding something is a conspiracy theory too early, is a massive problem.

Dr. Anthony Fauci said Friday the reason the public was advised not to wear masks at the beginning of the coronavirus pandemic was that there were too few to go around.

Aah. That’s where the uk government got the idea from.

Given that there were no (iirc) cases in the USA at the time he wrote the email I linked, I still don’t see how his advice was controversial in any way. And later, with the different point you’re referring to, if the government had been honest that there weren’t enough masks for the general public, how do you think that general public would have reacted? In an ideal world, politicians and advisors would never lie. But I can see how, at the start of an unprecedented pandemic, you might have to make unpopular decisions. In particular, to protect your medical staff.

And for goodness sake, if we’re looking for smoking guns to discredit people, “He said he'd lied on purpose to protect mask supply for healthcare workers.” just isn’t it.

I've watched half the anti vax doc and so far it's all about Wakefield and America, is it all about that?

@Ostara212 I've just done the exact same. Watched half and feel like that's enough for one night but I will finish it tomorrow night!

Right. For a source, I was hoping for something from the CCP. I see I was overreaching. You could turn out to be right, of course. It wouldn’t be beyond the realms of possibility, but when the only source is a very biased anti-China, anti-lockdown random Twitter account, it might be worth waiting for something more solid.

Samantha
It also shows he correctly assessed what the greater good was. As much as I’m angry at the uk government for doing the same, and would probably be angry with Fauci if I were American, what was the alternative? Protect the public, who at the time weren’t exposed to covid that much as case numbers were low? Leaving doctors, nurses and hcas - who were literally face to face with covid - without PPE? How would people have reacted if he’d made that decision?

And if he and the uk government had both been honest about the situation, do you honestly believe people wouldn’t have panic bought all the stocks of PPE they could get their hands on?

@SamanthaChumbaMumba

I've seen people who believe that the vaccines a re part of a de-population plan, either by making people infertile or by shortening lifespans.

Others believe that there are tiny microchips inside the vaccine. Ideas on what those chips will achieve are varied.

Yes I know someone who believes the vaccine makes you infertile. Why the government/ 'they' would want to do this is beyond me!

[quote hollyangel]@SomeKindOfFloppyWeirdo I'm really sorry that happened to your son in school, that's just terrible.[/quote]
Thanks holly he’s growing a thick skin and some kick arse comebacks, but it’s shit to have to deal with.