Genuine question for anti-Vaxxers

[kiddo5467]

So I have a question for SOME of the people who are against the vaccine.

It's not really relevant for those who don't want the vaccine as they don't believe it's been tested enough and don't want to be injected with something they don't know enough about. That's not my personal view but I can at least understand the rationale behind it and see why it would out some people off.

However, I've seen more & more people posting online about it being a 'conspiracy' and the government conning us all into getting the vaccine to suit their own agenda. This is what o can't get my head around. Do some people believe the government are trying to inject us with something negative to achieve some other hidden objective? If so, what do they think they're trying to achieve? Is everyone that's had the vaccine going to be wiped out? Unable to re-produce? Be tracked but some strange fluid in our bodies??

I'm not trying to antagonise anyone, I'd genuinely like to understand what people who believe the vaccine is part of a conspiracy, believe the conspiracy is?

@SamanthaChumbaMumba

So again, what’s your answer to these questions?

I've answered the last one a little, in this thread in response to someone else.

Which for me spells huge concerns about all sources who dismissed it outright and hampered investigations.

Most of this is in the Fauci emails, if you know about Daszak, you'll understand.
A media outlet is Vox. Their conduct has discredited them.

I have tired of this. Are you going to share your great wisdom or not?

...That they jumped from Animals, if you bother to read the extensive research papers...

Hmm. Well, that’s one way disinformation works.

A “Mr X did some terrible (but unspecified) thing!”

B “Really? What did he do?”

A “Do your own research, there’s loads of stuff out there.”

So B and most other readers don’t go and research because time/effort/who cares.

But a percentage of readers will leave the thread with the lingering thought that Mr X did something. Not sure what, but it wasn’t good. Then someone else says, “you can’t trust Mr X.” and the reader remembers that sometime in the past, Mr X has been accused of a bad (but unspecified) thing. The idea that Mr X = bad/untrustworthy is seeded, without a single link or scrap of evidence (or effort). Just with a little exposure to the idea. Rinse, repeat, seed seed enough times, and your work here is done.

@Pumperthepumper

Loads of people think this. They won’t give you any reason other than ‘control’ or ‘power’ and they won’t elaborate further.

@SomeKindOfFloppyWeirdo yes! This was my quote from the first page of this thread. So predictable.

Yep Pumper !
Not implying that anyone on here is a bot farm employee or similar, but humans tend to pick up/mirror ways of speaking and writing from their peers and what they read/hear. Therefore...?

@SomeKindOfFloppyWeirdo

Hmm. Well, that’s one way disinformation works.

A “Mr X did some terrible (but unspecified) thing!”

B “Really? What did he do?”

A “Do your own research, there’s loads of stuff out there.”

So B and most other readers don’t go and research because time/effort/who cares.

But a percentage of readers will leave the thread with the lingering thought that Mr X did something. Not sure what, but it wasn’t good. Then someone else says, “you can’t trust Mr X.” and the reader remembers that sometime in the past, Mr X has been accused of a bad (but unspecified) thing. The idea that Mr X = bad/untrustworthy is seeded, without a single link or scrap of evidence (or effort). Just with a little exposure to the idea. Rinse, repeat, seed seed enough times, and your work here is done.

Best explanation ever!!!😂

I've only started learning about more about the alternative theories and couldn't get my head round it all so was starting to question my own intelligence! (And sanity!)

[quote speckledostrichegg]@SamanthaChumbaMumba

I've had a glance through the emails that have been made publicly available

I haven't seen anything hugely alarming or that he didn't say in public

What exactly were the big reveals here?[/quote]
Coming back to Fauci's emails...

From what I've read and been told by those in the category you've asked about is that they are worried that years later we're going to find out it causes infertility and the agenda behind it is population control. 🤷🏻‍♀️

@LysistrataVickers

From what I've read and been told by those in the category you've asked about is that they are worried that years later we're going to find out it causes infertility and the agenda behind it is population control. 🤷🏻‍♀️

So they develop a vaccine to deliberately cause infertility and start off with those who are 80+ then 70+ etc but don't give it to under 18s who will be the next generation to reproduce?

In 2014, several breaches of protocol at US government laboratories brought matters to a head. The news that dozens of workers at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) might have been exposed to anthrax, that vials of smallpox virus had been left lying around in an NIH storeroom, and that the CDC had unwittingly sent out samples of ordinary influenza virus contaminated with H5N1, shook faith in the country's biosafety procedures.

Might this be why the USA isn’t pushing too hard on the lab leak theory? “Oh yeah guys that’s regular. Don’t sweat it 😬”

@SamanthaChumbaMumba

I have tired of this. Are you going to share your great wisdom or not?

Have you even looked at the Fauci emails?! That's the wisdom that I've shared!

Also I answered the other question, but in response to someone else, who hadn't asked me 'why would anyone want to cover up a lab leak?'

Asking me that is like someone asking you, say..' HoW dO StAiRs wORk?' You could post them a links to various sources but they'd still not understand how they were higher up than the were before without flying.

Why is lab theory more likely? How did it ‘hamper investigations’ (your words)? What difference would the virus being man-made have made to lockdowns etc?

I’ve read the emails. Try to reply without sighing, eye-rolling, and insults, if possible. You’re really not doing your credibility any favours.

@SamanthaChumbaMumba

I have tired of this. Are you going to share your great wisdom or not?

Have you even looked at the Fauci emails?! That's the wisdom that I've shared!

Also I answered the other question, but in response to someone else, who hadn't asked me 'why would anyone want to cover up a lab leak?'

Asking me that is like someone asking you, say..' HoW dO StAiRs wORk?' You could post them a links to various sources but they'd still not understand how they were higher up than the were before without flying.

@SamanthaChumbaMumba

what is in fauci's emails that's so problematic? I've had a look through and can't see anything that seems hugely alarming

Right I went looking for Fauci’s emails and found this.

His tone is a mix of friendly and formal, employing phrases like “let us discuss,” “many thanks,” and — in rare displays of displeasure — a delicate “yikes!” He signs off as “Tony.”

You’re right. He sounds like an absolute monster.

Within the emails there are colleagues of Fauci's saying that SARS-CoV-2 is 'inconsistent with evolution'. Fauci also appears to be panicking and refusing to discuss certain things over email. Daszak thanks Fauci for asserting that the origin is natural, not GOF.

Without the full context of the email chains, and the quotes from Fauci verbatim, this is pretty meaningless

@SamanthaChumbaMumba

Why is lab leak theory more likely? Within the emails there are colleagues of Fauci's saying that SARS-CoV-2 is 'inconsistent with evolution'. Fauci also appears to be panicking and refusing to discuss certain things over email. Daszak thanks Fauci for asserting that the origin is natural, not GOF.

How did it ‘hamper investigations’ (your words)?

The WHO taking DASZAK's report that 'It was not a lab leak' hampered investigations.

What difference would the virus being man-made have made to lockdowns etc?

Have you even looked back just within this thread to where I explained why the origins might have made a difference to the response, as I've pointed you to do so? If not, why not?

Are you ever going to address that you are a person who needs 'why would anyone want to cover up a lab leak?' to be explained to you?

Sorry I forgot to put ‘media’ in that sentence you’ve now referenced about four times

How do feel about the WHO?

The viruses originally came from animals, yes. The Wuhan Institute of Virology was studying bat viruses, not too far from the wet market that could also be the origin.

Are you seriously saying that we should have completely dismissed the possibility that it could also have come from the WIV, largely on Daszak's say so?

We study viruses in areas all over the world. It is a lot more difficult to transmit and spread a virus from a test tube than animals. We are mammals so of course we pick up diseases.

Lots of diseases are zoonotic why is it just this one (and some say HIV) that has been released?
And if the purpose is to kill people why not release something like anthrax which has a very low survival rate?

@Pumperthepumper This is an excellent analysis of the Lab Leak theory in the New Yorker last week, which explains exactly why we should be concerned about the way the media and many politicians and scientists immediately disregarded it as a a right-wing, conspiracy theory only.

www.newyorker.com/news/annals-of-inquiry/the-sudden-rise-of-the-coronavirus-lab-leak-theory

In a nutshell, Covid starting at a wet market in Wuhan with a bat is equally as plausible as the theory that it was leaked from the laboratory in Wuhan that is known to study and hold strains of the bat virus. Neither theory has been confirmed with any hard facts.

However, because the lab leak idea was promoted in March 2020 by Republican politicians such as Senator Tom Cotton and famously by Trump calling it the China Virus, it was immediately discredited, called a conspiracy theory and attributed to the rise in attacks on Asian-Americans in the US.
Meanwhile, the bat theory made much more sense to the masses, after other familiar zoonotic viruses like Avian flu.

The American press were very careful not to give any weight to anything Trump might have been correct about, in advance of the US Presidential election. After Biden was elected, it was immediately clear that the Wuhan lab leak theory was back on the table.