Will the unvaccinated have to “stay at home”

[auntpollie]

I’m pregnant, due November and have decided not to have the vaccine until after baby is born.

I’m starting to worry that there will be rules for what unvaccinated people can or cannot do.

Will it be the case where you have to be vaccinated to eat / drink out, go to the hairdressers or nail salon etc....?

I don’t want to spend my time at home but I’m not comfortable being vaccinated whilst pregnant.

CarolineNW, I don't think people are displaying ignorance, I just don't understand the thought process of a person who doesn't want the unknown risk of vaccine during pregnancy wants to go out during this pandemic, while the risk of contracting covid during pregnancy is unknown too.
I can totally see the worry for getting vaccinated, but if it was me, I would be worried about catching covid too, so would rather stay home and stay safe too.

@auntpollie - you mustn't expect people to read posts, what a thought! Covid vaccination is a particularly complex decision during pregnancy where it's easy to see why vaccination is the right decision for some and the wrong one for others. Welcome to parenting, where you'll find yourself weighing up risks and benefits a lot! Pregnancy is a delightful special time, but also with many safety worries for the baby and mum, so just let criticism glide past - see it as early training for answering questions about breastfeeding, weaning, toys, baby classes etc etc etc because everyone has an opinion on all of that too. You'll be able to have your meal out, don't worry, just work out what's needed to keep the balance of safe and sane, that's always the right answer.

@auntpollie on the contrary, i'm not (and wasn't) outraged with your post at all, and I did read your post that mentioned your birthday dinner (which I would have gone out with my husband for if it's my birthday soon!)

I was merely saying that it ultimately depends on what you consider to be safe for yourself and your baby. For me, that threshold is minimising the number of social outings (and to have them outdoors) if i do see friends / family socially) because i'm not planning to take the vaccine while i am pregnant. If I'm not pregnant, I might have a different threshold but then, that's a 'what if' situation for me. do what you feel is comfortable in this scenario (and the level of risks you're willing to take).

but that doesn’t mean I will want to stay completely inside my house for the next 6 months.

The thing is, none of us do. I completely believe in peoples bodily autonomy and choice to be vaccinated. But if it comes to the point where theres higher spread among the unvaccinated and the choices are lockdown everyone or lockdown the unvaccinated (who are the ones getting/spreading it) I just can reconcile with locking down everyone. And either way at that point you'd have to stay inside, so why should everyone else too?

@auntpollie the likely way your fear will become a reality is if there is indeed a higher incidence of covid among the unvaccinated.
If that happens - are you still happy to be going out ?

It is in nobody’s interest to restrict people from going out so they government wouldn’t introduce passports unless there’s a good reason for it....

I expect the population of vaccine refusers will be small enough that herd immunity isn’t compromised, and therefore there won’t be a need for vaccine passports. Given that pregnant women are are an increased risk of complications from Covid, however, you may not feel comfortable being out and about until you’ve had your vaccine. You may therefore end up in a self-imposed lockdown if you don’t feel it’s safe to take the risk of getting Covid.

No it won’t happen. You may need to do a covid test if attending a large event and obviously flying. But many countries are insisting on covid tests for vaccinated people too.

In Germany apparently you need to show that you've either :1 been vaccinated 2 recovered from covid 3 had a negative LTF to go to restaurants / hairdressers / clothes shopping. Fact.

@pinkrainbow100

In Germany apparently you need to show that you've either :1 been vaccinated 2 recovered from covid 3 had a negative LTF to go to restaurants / hairdressers / clothes shopping. Fact.

@pinkrainbow100

Good job we aren’t in Germany then.

That really wouldn't fly in the UK. For going into work with vulnerable people, maybe, even then there'll be a load of exemptions.

It's shocking right ! ? Really surprised it's not more spoken about in the media.

Id like to have a meal out for my birthday which is weeks away, and possibly meet a friend for coffee who I haven’t seen for such a long time.

To be safe, have the meal and coffee outside.

The problem shouldn't be how much you may or not be allowed to do, but how much risk you want to take.
You're not a child.
You're expecting one, which you're trying to protect by not taking a vaccine, so keep protecting the child by not taking unnecessary risks. That's all.

I think we WILL come to the unvaccinated being excluded from society, The majority of the vaccinated will be OK with this, as we have seen on this thread, By the time they realise what is really happening it will be too late.

I have decided not to have the vaccine, for all the reasons PP have stated. AND i am happy to accept the consequences of my actions (all of them, including catching Covid).

I do not think that the majority of the vaccinated have had the vaccine to protect society, I believe they have done so because they are scared of Covid or want some of there freedoms back, which will be short term, or not at all as we have already seen.

Everyone is doing what they think is the right thing, and that is everyone's right to do. Time will eventually tell who is right and who is wrong.

Here in Cyprus we already have a coronapass-you have to be 3 weeks post vaccine,or have had corona in the last 6 months,or have a rapid test less than 72 hours old in order to go to a restaurant and sit indoors, or to a cinema/theatre/club etc. Sitting outdoors at a cafe, visiting hairdressers or going to the supermarket doesn't carry these restrictions.

I think those who choose to be unvaccinated will have some consequences to their actions.

At big events vaccine passports or PCRs seem reasonable.

If a hairdresser only has 3 staff, what if one of their staff is unable to be vaccinated. They have a right to protect her to the best of their ability.

And in secondary schools if a large amount do not vaccinate , then some immune compromised children won't be able to attend.

Why should ppl indefinitely shield due to anti-vaxxers who have been happy to live under herd protection. They want all the benefits of being part of a society. However they won't do their bit.

I do not think that the majority of the vaccinated have had the vaccine to protect society, I believe they have done so because they are scared of Covid or want some of there freedoms back

I think this says more about you than those who have choosen to be vaccinated. I got mine :
a)To protect my family
b)To protect my patients (and the wider NHS)
c) So that society including schools and bussineses can return to normal.

I seriously doubt there will be U.K. restrictions for unvaccinated people by September. Maybe you might need one to go on a cruise or enter certain countries, but I doubt in the U.K.. You sound like you have looked up the risk of vaccine vs catching covid while pregnant. I’m going to discuss with obstetric cons soon - as I think there has been data from US with pfizer.

I do feel that there should be some provision for vulnerable people unable to have the vaccine due to allergy or medical condition. Perhaps there should be days when places will check and days when they won’t - to maximise access for different people.

I think this says more about you than those who have choosen to be vaccinated. I got mine :
a)To protect my family
b)To protect my patients (and the wider NHS)
c) So that society including schools and bussineses can return to normal.

Good for you. But I think most people have done it for themselves and then like to tell people they’ve done it for the ‘greater good’. I believe that because I don’t see much of this community spirit being shown by these people in other ways. 🤷🏻‍♀️

I don’t think unvaccinated people will be restricted massively. If that happens I think we should all be quite worried, vaccinated or unvaccinated. Being controlled in that way isn’t something that society should want in my opinion. If there are restrictions though, I still wouldn’t get vaccinated.

@CautiousBlonde

I think we WILL come to the unvaccinated being excluded from society, The majority of the vaccinated will be OK with this, as we have seen on this thread, By the time they realise what is really happening it will be too late.

I have decided not to have the vaccine, for all the reasons PP have stated. AND i am happy to accept the consequences of my actions (all of them, including catching Covid).

I do not think that the majority of the vaccinated have had the vaccine to protect society, I believe they have done so because they are scared of Covid or want some of there freedoms back, which will be short term, or not at all as we have already seen.

Everyone is doing what they think is the right thing, and that is everyone's right to do. Time will eventually tell who is right and who is wrong.

I had my first vaccine last week and I am not scared of Covid in the slightest.

Good grief.
A pregnant woman expressing concern about a new vaccine is being bullied by some here. Unbelievable.
It's pretty damned easy to see how the concentration camps came to be.
Some would happily see unvaccinated locked up. They really would. Take away comforts from people and they'd see others hang. Civilisation is just a thin veneer.
I don't think it will come to that. The UK doesn't have the organisational skills to organise such things. Unlike other countries I could name. Thankfully. And I do believe most Brits are decent. We've never really been prone to fascism as a nation.
Bullying a pregnant woman for being wary about a vaccine. Wtf?!

I mean the OP isn't a conspiracy theorist. Just a pregnant woman with concerns.

Those slagging her off should be ashamed.

Not only bullies but gullible as hell, too. Life's not going to be normal for years even if ALL people vaxxed. Fools.
Naturally, the govt. want a scapegoat for their failings.
Well done for falling for it.

June 21st will NOT bring normality.

I think we WILL come to the unvaccinated being excluded from society, The majority of the vaccinated will be OK with this, as we have seen on this thread, By the time they realise what is really happening it will be too late.

This dystopian scenario would only be likely to happen if herd immunity is never reached.

The issue now is the transition phase. It's a delicate phase for everyone, and we, as a society, need to reach herd immunity ASAP.
Without it we have two options, shielding the vulnerable (which can take many options, other than just staying at home) or population wide restrictions.

People who can be vaccinated and are not, affect the entire community, including themselves, because control measures have to last longer. This is highly unfair on the vaccinated and on those who can't be vaccinated.

@auntpollie I understand you. I wouldn't have got the vaccine if I was pregnant. No way. I didn't even take paracetamol / sickness meds and I was dying.

I wanted to protect my unborn child. I hope that we will not have a two tiered society with restrictions on unvaccinated people. I think it's morally wrong.

That being said, I would 100 percent be shielding if I was pregnant. I've pretty much been shielding this year, because I deemed it necessary. I'm in group 6, so didn't need to.

In terms of why I got the vaccine, I am happy to admit :

1. To protect myself

2 To protect my family 3 To get freedoms back

Other people I don't know or society are just a by product. If the vaccine wouldn't benefit the first three things, I would not have got it 'to benefit others only'.

@pinkrainbow100 why on earth would you shield when you didn’t need to?

‘Shielding’ when not medically necessary seems ludicrous, not only that, but most people have to work, they can’t just shut themselves away on a whim.

@KaleSlayer

*I think this says more about you than those who have choosen to be vaccinated. I got mine : a)To protect my family b)To protect my patients (and the wider NHS) c) So that society including schools and bussineses can return to normal.*

Good for you. But I think most people have done it for themselves and then like to tell people they’ve done it for the ‘greater good’. I believe that because I don’t see much of this community spirit being shown by these people in other ways. 🤷🏻‍♀️

I don’t think unvaccinated people will be restricted massively. If that happens I think we should all be quite worried, vaccinated or unvaccinated. Being controlled in that way isn’t something that society should want in my opinion. If there are restrictions though, I still wouldn’t get vaccinated.

As he pointed out. You're the type of person who ONLY thinks about themselves ergo you believe everyone else is the same.

We have two tiered society right now, with clinically vulnerable people being asked to shield for months on end.

I think unvaccinated people (through choice) may inadvertently add themselves to the group who have to shield. Time will tell.

This is an interesting thread which brings up the clash of rights between

people who choose not to have the vaccine (and their right to choose whether to have a medical intervention)

and the rights of clinically vulnerable people who would be protected through herd immunity (and their right to access basics of society e.g. schooling)

The problem in the pandemic is that the world is connected far more than at different times. Because of the sheer number of hosts/vectors/bodies available to the virus to continue to propagate, one individual’s choice is far more impactful on another’s rights.

I suspect that if a new highly transmissible variant becomes dominant which affects unvaccinated people adversely and there are still enough unvaccinated people around for this to overrun the NHS.....

These two groups will be asked to shield.

One by one, the former group will reassess their risk and slowly get vaccinated, hopefully this will lead to those who are clinically vulnerable being protected by herd immunity and virus levels being brought very low.

I think this could take another year and I feel extremely sorry for those who have no choice and are at the mercy of others’ decisions. Especially children.

I’m not saying the OP or anyone else who chooses not to get vaccinated is wrong. It is their right to choose whether and when to do this. But I believe in a pandemic situation, this is the impact.