Will the unvaccinated have to “stay at home”

[auntpollie]

I’m pregnant, due November and have decided not to have the vaccine until after baby is born.

I’m starting to worry that there will be rules for what unvaccinated people can or cannot do.

Will it be the case where you have to be vaccinated to eat / drink out, go to the hairdressers or nail salon etc....?

I don’t want to spend my time at home but I’m not comfortable being vaccinated whilst pregnant.

Why even speculate? We're not in that situation and we're not likely to be. Just have the vaccine after your baby is born, it doesn't really need a debate on mumsnet with people who know no more than you about it.

@Waxonwaxoff0

I'm vaccinated but I hope not. I do not want to live in a country where we have that kind of dictacting behaviour and it's scary how many people on MN would be happy to see it. Ridiculous overreactions on here.

I do understand what you mean but I'm not sure it is about dictating - it is about trying to protect as many people as possible, I believe. And whilst some people choose not to have it, unfortunately the risk still remains.

[quote SmidgenofaPigeon]@auntpollie I’m not sure my decision or your decision needs to have anything to do with how long you’ve waited to be a parent- me having the vaccine doesn’t mean I’ve considered my baby any less than you have considered yours. You don’t know my situation in becoming pregnant either, and my journey TTC has fuck all to do with whether I think it’s right to take the vaccine or not.

As it is, I feel I’ve read enough and done crouch of my own research to think that, on balance, I’ll take a vaccine rather than be pregnant and at risk of catching covid.[/quote]
I totally agree with you! There has been no risk proven in the trials thus far. The risk of Covid on your unborn baby is huge though!

@Aspiringmatriarch

Why even speculate? We're not in that situation and we're not likely to be. Just have the vaccine after your baby is born, it doesn't really need a debate on mumsnet with people who know no more than you about it.

Agree. Log out OP.

@Lucyh179 if people choose not to have the vaccine, I feel no responsibility to protect them to be honest. For those who can't have the vaccine for whatever reason - it's not ideal, but we cannot stay locked down forever to protect them either.

[quote Waxonwaxoff0]@Lucyh179 if people choose not to have the vaccine, I feel no responsibility to protect them to be honest. For those who can't have the vaccine for whatever reason - it's not ideal, but we cannot stay locked down forever to protect them either.[/quote]
Oh yeah, I see what you mean on that.

@Aspiringmatriarch

Why even speculate? We're not in that situation and we're not likely to be. Just have the vaccine after your baby is born, it doesn't really need a debate on mumsnet with people who know no more than you about it.

I agree with you that is not for us to speculate. But we have to accept that by not having the vaccine we run the risk of getting COVID and going down badly which is not good our developing babies!

I didn’t think to consider how I might be an inconvenience for choosing to peruse my pregnancy plans over my Covid vaccine

Which is fine. But now you have to accept that inconvenience.

I wouldn't have even bothered asking the question on here OP. Its only randoms on the internet so doesn't count for anything really.

Tbh, if you have waited long enough to be parents, and don't want to take vaccine because you feel uncomfortable about it, why are you even worried about not being able to go out for next 6 months. Idea of getting covid and passing it on to your unborn child must be even more uncomfortable thought for you.
Hopefully more people will get vaccinated, addition to those who have natural immunity, the infection rate keep dropping and ultimately soon the virus will slow down, protecting everyone.

I’m 20 weeks and had the vaccine recently. I have had a few miscarriages so I was nervous but ultimately decided it’s the best thing for me and baby, based on scientific and medical advice (and I’m not the expert, they are).

I researched thoroughly, and found the Stella Creasy ‘pregnant then screwed’ talk on YouTube really useful. If you type ‘pregnant then screwed covid vaccine’ into YouTube it will come up.

I also found the below very helpful, I would advise having a read if you haven’t already:

www.rcog.org.uk/globalassets/documents/guidelines/2021-02-24-combined-info-sheet-and-decision-aid.pdf

There aren’t any known risks to mum or baby from having the vaccine, however there are many known risks if you get covid. That was what made me take the decision to have it.

I do understand though, I was very nervous about having it. Baby is still kicking away in there so I think he’s still happy! Xx

It's a good idea to minimise your contact in the final trimester to keep safe; coffee outside etc. Even if cases are low it's the same as for a bad flu season or norovirus, just minimising contact as much as possible. There wouldn't be restrictions until everyone has been offered two jabs, if there is a need at all, so that's you into your third trimester by then anyway and not worth worrying about. Good luck and enjoy your pregnancy.

If there is no significant difference in transmission between the vaccinated and unvaccinated there would be no need for a vaccine passport.

If there was - by going out you’d still be risking your health and baby’s by being unvaccinated so why would you not stay at home? If you insist on going out despite the risk but won’t take the vaccine then you’re being very self contradictory and have no right to moan.

There I solved it, thread over! :p

@Whatevergetsyouthroughthenight

I think that the unvaccinated should stay at home as if they don’t, they are creating a life sentence of home imprisonment for many of the extremely clinically vulnerable for whom the vaccine is less effective and have no choice in the matter. I have a dear friend who has had both jabs but clinical trials have shown that both does of the vaccine only produces antibodies in 16% of people with her condition. She’s already not been able to go anywhere other than medical appointments for 16 months and unless coronavirus all but disappears there’s no end in sight for her shielding. People who can have the vaccine should do so, otherwise there’s a population that will allow the virus to keep developing new variants rather than breaking the transmission chain. For your own health too, who wants long COVID?

This is ridiculous.

I'm pregnant and definitely NOT having the vaccine and I'm going out and about, thanks very much!

Also sorry haven’t RTFT I’m sure pp have made the same point already. But you’re pregnant during a pandemic ,if you have waited that long to have a baby surely staying at home for a bit longer shouldn’t be a huge burden for something you wanted so badly

[quote auntpollie]@MrsTophamHat

you want to continue to go out in crowded public places and potentially catch Covid whilst heavily pregnant?

I’m not sure I said I want to go out to * crowded public places*

I will be taking lots precaution and being very careful, but that doesn’t mean I will want to stay completely inside my house for the next 6 months.[/quote]
Ignore the maniacs on here! Drama queens ...

If I was in your situation OP I would look at the affects covid has had on ladies in the 3rd trimester of pregnancy! My colleagues have nursed women in these situations and have either lost both mother and baby, baby has had to come early and lost the mother and covid affecting baby and they had a still birth. This is why the RCOG guidelines as women to shield/work from home etc after 28 weeks.
I would shield at home if I was unvaccinated and heavily pregnant.

@Moondust001

We’ve waited a long time to be parents and I don’t feel comfortable with the risk.

Which risk? Seriously, you haven't done your homework. Whilst I appreciate your concerns - and I am not even going to start on the risks of just being pregnant - you are not making an informed decision here. You can't be. The risk of the vaccine to you and your baby are statistically insignificant - not no risk at all, but nothing in life has not risk. The risks to you and your baby of Covid are actually far higher - still not likely, but much more dangerous than the vaccine. We know that pregnancy puts women at greater risk of a serious case of Covid. We know that higher levels of stillbirth and prematurity are associated with having caught the virus - even if you have a mild or asymptomatic case.

Therefore, frankly, if your concern is really to minimise the risk to yourself and your child, then you should either have the vaccine or choose self-isolation! Being more concerned that as an unvaccinated person you should be allowed to go out and mix freely in places that you do not need to go to is actually the worst and riskiest choice that you can make!

You don't know that! Only 80 women in the US have had a baby since having a vaccine (as of last month). My GP strongly advised against it.

So @Twatterati, do you feel that people should be excluded from all social settings for not having the flu jab, MMR, TB, Polio vaccinations etc?

You cannot exclude people because they haven’t had a vaccine, that’s absurd!

No, the majority of people who aren’t having the vaccine including those that are pregnant aren’t doing so because it’s wildly untested. We do not know what the long term effects may be on our bodies and that of our unborn child. Once more studies have been completed, then we may make a different choice in the future.

You cannot stand by your last comment “ Staying home for a bit whilst pregnant and unvaccinated should be a no-brainer. Going out and about is putting yourself and your unborn child at as much - if not more - risk than having the vaccine whilst pregnant” as you simply do not know. I am making, along with others, the best decision for myself and unborn child.

I really worry for our country that people genuinely feel that other human beings should be excluded from social settings for not taking a vaccine, that by and large, people won’t fall terribly ill if they catch that illness.

You can have it both ways, last I knew, we lived in a free society. If this changes and we are excluded, then we live under dictatorship.

We have absolutely no idea whatsoever if having the Covid vaccine in pregnancy affects the baby developmentally.

So far, indicators are that it doesn’t cause death in utero and babies are born appearing to be healthy. Which is great and a fantastic start.

What remains to be seen, however, is if the vaccine has any effect on how the baby develops, eg if it affects brain development which could determine whether the child is NT or not. We do know that other factors raise the risk of conditions such as ADHD and autism, including fairly commonplace things like taking paracetamol and chronic stress. So it’s not that great a leap to wonder if the vaccine could have an effect. At the least it will raise inflammation in the mother’s body - that is what an immune response does - which can affect development in some cases.

Of course, on the other side, we have the known risks of Covid to the life of the mother and possibly the baby. These are small per head of population, but clearly can be catastrophic if they do arise.

These factors need to be weighed carefully, and unfortunately we are currently still in the dark about much of it.

It’s not clear cut at all. It’s actually a really difficult decision with risks either way, many of which we’re not fully aware of yet.

And for that reason I feel it’s incredibly out of order to berate and abuse pregnant women who choose not to have the vaccine.

We all have the right to medical autonomy. Let’s not try and dictate what others do, or ridicule them if they choose differently to how we would.

Hi Op, i think some posters have been quite harsh here.

Congratulations on your pregnancy!

In the end of the day, it's about weighing risks to yourself and your child. I am pregnant, 3rd trimester and currently, I am not planning to have my vaccine whilst pregnant. However I am also limiting any outings to the bare minimum and any social outings (just one planned so far!) will be outdoors with a small group. Because i'm not vaccinated, I feel safer isolating myself as much as possible. My husband works from home and is doing the same, because there is no 100% guarantee that once vaccinated he won't spread COVID.

To answer your question, no I don’t think the government will issue blanket ‘stay at home’ rules for those who are unvaccinated. I can completely understand reluctance to have the vaccine during pregnancy, and I’m not sure i would support internal vaccine passports for any reason.

BUT I do think there is a reason they’ve made our vaccine status available on the NHS app.
I suspect they’re either going to put it in the hands of individual businesses, so for example a restaurant, cafe etc will be given the freedom to deny access to adults who can’t prove they’ve had the vaccine. OR they’ll use it for a rejigged tier system. In areas of high transmission certain activities may only be available to those who’ve been vaccinated. Obviously in both of these cases there would need to be exceptions to prevent those unable to have the vaccine from being discriminated against, so children and those who can’t medically have the vaccine would need to be exempt from the rule. I’m not sure where that would leave pregnant women, it would be really tricky. Pregnancy is a protected characteristic, but the vaccine is technically available to pregnant women. It is the choice not to have it that would, theoretically, prevent entry.

Some outrageous comments on this thread displaying ignorance in determining actual mortality rates from Covid with no sense of perspective at all and quite terrifying some people believe what they have written on here. Rather than conjecture, let's deal with facts

• The average age of death from covid is above life expectancy at 82 years of age

• The vast majority of people who get covid are either asymptomatic or have symptoms so mild they need a test to see if they have had it

• The number of people that have died of covid under 40 in a population of 70 million people could fit into one room

A pregnant lady ( the OP) has decided quite wisely in my opinion not to have a vaccine for a disease that poses less of a risk to her age demographics than the chances of drowning in her bathtub with a rubber ducky. What kind of mindset would suggest for the benefit of physical and mental health, it would be advantageous to " self isolate" for 6 months with risks so tiny from this virus,she has far more chance of breaking her neck on a flight of stairs? It's utterly contemptible someone so petrified of covid legislation/ lockdowns/ their own health would want to bully someone into taking a vaccine which has a tiny risk of death to they can feel more comfortable at the hairdressers/pub delete whatever place.

It isn't the duty of anyone to take a vaccine to " avoid lockdowns"- there is no need for any lockdown now the vulnerable have had their jabs. If the vulnerable who can't take their jabs are at risk, presumably they will be at risk from all diseases and unable to take those jabs either. We can't live in a state of perpetual fear demanding people playing Russian roulette with a vaccine they don't essentially need for the greater good because Maureen at number 22 is terrified.

Are people so uneducated they don't realise a healthy young person " self isolating for 6 months " poses a far greater risk of physical /mental health damage than a disease which has killed less than 100 people under 40 in a population of nearly 70 million? The government have done an excellent job in scaring people to hell in a handcart where a percentage of people have lost their marbles. Can you imagine a conversation with the family of a young lady dead due to an adverse reaction to the vaccine " Well she took it for the greater good"? It's irrelevant what the risk of the vaccine is related to the virus, it's the choice of anyone what to inject into their own body.. perhaps those advocating the unvaccinated should stay in shaking like lettuce leaves should heed their own advice and continue getting the groceries delivered through the cat flap shaking in terror allowing the rest of us to go out exercising our two most fundamental rights as human beings... freedom and body autonomy

I'm not pregnant and don't want the vaccine. Many others feel the same way.
The following post from @Whatevergetsyouthroughthenight on the thread says

"I think that the unvaccinated should stay at home as if they don’t, they are creating a life sentence of home imprisonment for many of the extremely clinically vulnerable for whom the vaccine is less effective and have no choice in the matter"

Imagine a mindset like this where someone who doesn't want to inject themselves with a vaccine that can potentially lead to a fatal bloodclot should stay at home because they think only of their own circumstances or relatives implying a potential sacrifice should be made for society which could cost you your life. There isn't any point abusing characters like this- I just metaphorically pat them on the head at laugh at them as they have are so consumed with covid they're willing to throw away civil liberties our ancestors fought so hard far. This kind of mindset is far more disgusting than covid itself.. I suspect if people at risk of flu suggested the above mentioned poster stay in indefinitely till she got her flu jab her cheeks would be bouncing up and down with rage.

Stick to your guns Op and don't allows yourself to be bullied from people exhibiting what can only be described as irrational hysteria as they hide under the stairs

@PickleCabbage

Hi Op, i think some posters have been quite harsh here.

Congratulations on your pregnancy!

In the end of the day, it's about weighing risks to yourself and your child. I am pregnant, 3rd trimester and currently, I am not planning to have my vaccine whilst pregnant. However I am also limiting any outings to the bare minimum and any social outings (just one planned so far!) will be outdoors with a small group. Because i'm not vaccinated, I feel safer isolating myself as much as possible. My husband works from home and is doing the same, because there is no 100% guarantee that once vaccinated he won't spread COVID.

@PickleCabbage

Perhaps I’ve just not come across very clearly, maybe that’s why so many people seem outraged by my post.

I certainly won’t be venturing out lots, I don’t feel safe to do that.
My husband works from home (as do I) and he’s fully vaccinated.

Id like to have a meal out for my birthday which is weeks away, and possibly meet a friend for coffee who I haven’t seen for such a long time.

I think people have perhaps taken my post to mean I’m not taking the vaccine but will be going everywhere and spreading Covid...

@iggly take it up with the Germans! I know a lot of German people and they have all told me that it’s a real inconvenience.