Will the unvaccinated have to “stay at home”

[auntpollie]

I’m pregnant, due November and have decided not to have the vaccine until after baby is born.

I’m starting to worry that there will be rules for what unvaccinated people can or cannot do.

Will it be the case where you have to be vaccinated to eat / drink out, go to the hairdressers or nail salon etc....?

I don’t want to spend my time at home but I’m not comfortable being vaccinated whilst pregnant.

As he pointed out. You're the type of person who ONLY thinks about themselves ergo you believe everyone else is the same.

I don’t only think of myself. If I was only thinking of myself, I’d have the vaccine. I see people who are usually very selfish in their lives claiming to be all about the greater good because they’ve had the vaccine.

@auntpollie to answer your original post, no I don’t think you will be formally excluded from anything between now and September however that lack of formality may have downsides if you find yourself in a position where you’d like to take extra precautions and there are no support systems to do that (if, for instance, you found yourself in an area with rapidly rising cases and your employer was unsupportive you may find your only option is to start maternity leave sooner).

Ultimately by opting out of the current medical advice (which I believe is to vaccinate past the first trimester) you take on the burden of risk assessing and protecting yourself outside of the standard national advice. If I were in your shoes that would mean being aware of case rates locally to judge your risk and possibly expecting more from friends and family I was planning to see (LFT’s before meeting for example). That means reconciling living by a different standard for the duration and running into mild conflict when others don’t ‘get it’ because everyone has an opinion. A thick skin is likely to be required.

[quote SmidgenofaPigeon]@pinkrainbow100 why on earth would you shield when you didn’t need to?

‘Shielding’ when not medically necessary seems ludicrous, not only that, but most people have to work, they can’t just shut themselves away on a whim.[/quote]
Because it was MY choice and I can do what I want. I work from home, so it wasn't difficult to do. I'm in group 6 and have a serious underlying health condition. Just because my consultant didn't think it was necessary, doesn't mean I wasn't going to be extra cautious, especially in the beginning - when we didn't know enough about it all.

Cornettoninja

@auntpollie to answer your original post, no I don’t think you will be formally excluded from anything between now and September however that lack of formality may have downsides if you find yourself in a position where you’d like to take extra precautions and there are no support systems to do that (if, for instance, you found yourself in an area with rapidly rising cases and your employer was unsupportive you may find your only option is to start maternity leave sooner).

Ultimately by opting out of the current medical advice (which I believe is to vaccinate past the first trimester) you take on the burden of risk assessing and protecting yourself outside of the standard national advice. If I were in your shoes that would mean being aware of case rates locally to judge your risk and possibly expecting more from friends and family I was planning to see (LFT’s before meeting for example). That means reconciling living by a different standard for the duration and running into mild conflict when others don’t ‘get it’ because everyone has an opinion. A thick skin is likely to be required

Fantastic advice. ^

I just realised I misread your DD as September when it’s November - sorry!

I think my stance still applies but I would add that autumn is going to bring new worries over another winter peak, whether it happens or not, so I would brace yourself for that too. I think convictions on either side of the vaccination argument are likely to get emotionally heightened again past what they currently are.

I'm pregnant and have recently had it, if I hadn't I wouldn't be planning on merrily skipping about the place like nothing had happened anyway. I had fully planned to spend my summer basically shielding/only seeing (vaccinated) family at home or at outdoor attractions, until they changed the national guidance to advise that it's safe. I'm delighted I can now nip to the shops without worrying quite as much.

In my opinion you can't have it both ways. You either avoid the jab, which is your choice, but accept that you need to be very careful, or you have the jab and crack on getting your hair cut and other non-essential things.

I find it hard to reconcile not being ok with taking the vaccination, for some perceived risk, but being perfectly ok to go about normal business unprotected while pregnant which has known risks, really. I can understand those who choose not vaccinate but surely then your logic would tell you that you're basically CEV for the rest of your pregnancy?

I can understand those who choose not vaccinate but surely then your logic would tell you that you're basically CEV for the rest of your pregnancy?

In a nutshell

I personally doubt the vaccination passports will be introduced in the UK, particularly not in the next few months. They're unlikely to be needed for travel even. You can enter Spain just now for instance without one, and without a cpr test.
If I were you I would not worry as you have no control over what happens anyway, what will be will be.
I had my baby in September, my kids were at school from January to late March when the numbers started to grow, there were a lot of kids with covid at my kids school (NHS parents who tested positive and had symptomatic children). They were then back for 4 weeks before I had the baby, we were out and about, I never caught covid that I know of, we might have had it fairly asymptomatically in March 2020.
If I were pregnant now I'd also delay the covid vaccine. Too many unknowns for me personally.

Pregnancy falls into a huge grey area of risk assessing the potential effects of a recent medical development. Pregnant women don't have identical lives and will reach different conclusions based on the risk of their lifestyle and circumstances.
Pregnant NHS workers who were offered the vaccine several months ago when rates were far higher faced a different risk benefit analysis to a woman reaching the age range now who spends little time in busy, poorly ventilated places who feels that it may not be worth a medical intervention for the occasional visit to a coffee shop. Neither is wrong and this is why informed personal consent is so vital.

General acceptance of the vaccine in the UK is great. There are grey areas of "not yet" where people will need more time to feel comfortable about accepting and people with a large range of uncommon medical conditions where there just isn't the medical advice avaliable for a definitive yes or no. By the autumn, the pool of women who haven't been vaccinated prior to pregnancy will naturally dwindle so the issue will reduce (not much help to OP though!)

Pushing towards "vaccine passports" is a dangerous slippery slope. It is unreasonable to exclude people from society for legal choices and particularly in this case where there is a huge grey area of decision making. People chosing to modify their own risk of lifestyle is very different.

Compulsion is dangerous encouragement to actual anti-vaxx people who tend to lead towards conspiracy theory, and drives them to further disengage from mainstream views and society. It is more likely to encourage them to not engage with healthcare and public systems including education for their children and be counterproductive to the general good of society.

The government mooted vaccine passports for hospitality and were quickly shot down by businesses unwilling to police it. Businesses want as much custom as possible to recover from repeated lockdowns, they don't want to turn trade away. Pilot schemes for mass scale events have produced very positive results on a very, very low spread of cases. Domestic vaccine passports are unnecessary and undesirable.

Congratulations OP, and I hope all goes well.

Also, being pregnant does not make you CEV.

@everythingthelighttouches excellent posts several posters made this point but OP hasn’t engaged with any of them... surely she understands the logical contradiction but is going to go ahead anyway

Also to add - the government may not require vaccine passports but give businesses the right to check your vaccination status on the app if required...

@Cornettoninja

I can understand those who choose not vaccinate but surely then your logic would tell you that you're basically CEV for the rest of your pregnancy?

In a nutshell

Shielding was always a choice to follow the offered advice or not. It's not like people were barricaded into their homes by the authorities.

I understand your concerns but can’t understand why you are so desperate to go for a meal in 8 weeks time, if the numbers have got so bad that passports have been bought in.

@BogRollBOGOF true, but presuming the OP does have some concerns about the risk (basing that presumption on the fact she plans to vaccinate after the birth), then it’s not unreasonable to look to CV/CEV guidance.

If it were me then given it’s not just my own health but my baby’s too I would be researching the CEV guidelines to find my own levels of comfort within the information available. If there is no formal advice or recommendation and/or my boundaries didn’t align with what is officially recommended then it’s back to having to balance everything independently.

@KaleSlayer
I don’t only think of myself. If I was only thinking of myself, I’d have the vaccine.
Can you explain this statement? It seems odd to me.

IMO, having the vaccine is both for our own good and for the good of the wider community. But you seem to be saying that you are not taking the vaccine because you are thinking of others, is that so? And if so, why?

Can't add anything to the good advice already given on here op.

Like others, I don't know if it will be a matter of forcing unvaccinated people to shield. It may mean that, but it wouldn't be some sort of punishment, would it? If you're unvaccinated and pregnant and therefore more vulnerable, of course, if things get worse again, you may be asked to shield, just like people with other conditions will be.

I don't think you should be forced or coerced into getting the vaccination at all. But then, you do take on some of the responsibility for being more careful than other pregnant women who are vaccinated. That isn't to punish you, but surely it's common sense, to keep yourself and your baby a little safer through other means, (ie not going out and possibly shielding when asked to).

Congratulations to you though and do not feel pushed into getting the vaccination if you don't want it. People stayed in for huge chunks of last year, during pregnancy and with young babies. Not fun, but doable! In some ways, you don't want to be out and about that much with young babies or during the end of pregnancy, so you may have to stay in and maybe you won't mind.

But, I think people maybe reacted strongly on here as it did sound as if you wanted to go out a lot unvaccinated. You have since clarified you won't be, so, to a point, does it really matter to you personally if you have to stay at home more than others, seeing as you were planning to anyway?

Congratulations again

Can you explain this statement? It seems odd to me.

I don’t want to derail the thread. But I’ve chosen not to have the vaccine as I’m vegan. I try really hard not to use things that are tested on animals and obviously this vaccine has been. If it was possible to have a vaccine not tested on animals, I’d have it.

I find it hard to reconcile not being ok with taking the vaccination, for some perceived risk, but being perfectly ok to go about normal business unprotected while pregnant which has known risks, really. I can understand those who choose not vaccinate but surely then your logic would tell you that you're basically CEV for the rest of your pregnancy?

I was pregnant last year July-November when my son died. Nobody was vaccinated, my elder son was in school andy dh works on public transport, there was no choice but to go about my business.

I'm now pregnant again, but am putting off being vaccinated until after 8/10/12 weeks, because im scared of getting a fever in the first few weeks, not because of what's in the vaccine. I still have to take my ds to school, my dh still works on public transport (although he has had his first jab). It's the cost v benefit v fear for me.

This pregnancy is terrifying, challenging and incredibly precious in equal measures. I get why OP is hesitant. But I also know women whose babies died because of covid infection. I want to be protected (fully) in time for winter. It doesn't mean its an easy choice.

I don't think it will be a blanket law in UK, that e.g. you can't go to the pub without a vaccine, but I do think there could be private enterprises who put those kinds of rules in place, especially airlines.

I also think it's possible some countries will restrict entry without a vaccine.

@SemiFeralDalek Really I meant more that the OP suggested that she was concerned that she wouldn't be able to get her nails done or eat in a restaurant with friends, but I gather I missed where she clarified on that one . I'm very sorry for your loss

@SemiFeralDalek - very sorry for your loss, I hope your current pregnancy goes well.

I've come back to this thread to apologise - I'm sorry, I was rude in my posts yesterday and what I said was unnecessary. I'm really sorry OP to be rude to you and on your thread. And I'm also sorry to the other posters who were affected directly or indirectly by my rudeness.

I'm really sorry

@Waxonwaxoff0

I'm vaccinated but I hope not. I do not want to live in a country where we have that kind of dictacting behaviour and it's scary how many people on MN would be happy to see it. Ridiculous overreactions on here.

Especially seeing as there are many that cannot have a vaccine. Including, at the moment, all children!

@Wherediditgo yes, I wonder how many people advocating for "vaccine passports" have DC at school, because they are probably more likely to catch it from their own kids than an unvaccinated person in the street!