Independent SAGE: Lockdown easing must be delayed

[FriedHam]

I see Independent sage have said that the lockdown easing planned for Monday must be cancelled. This would mean that pubs and restaurants would remain closed indoors and home visiting would not be permitted.

www.theguardian.com/world/2021/may/12/indian-covid-variant-calls-in-question-17-may-reopening-in-uk-say-experts

Christina Pagel of independent sage has said this is necessary because of the Indian variant spreading across the country. However, there is no evidence that the vaccines are any less effective against the Indian variant.

Personally I'm just not sure that we can justify keeping businesses closed for longer and the inevitable job losses that will follow on the off chance that a particular variant may cause problems for the vaccine.

So is this a real danger that necessitates cancelling the easing or a desperate attempt by independent sage to remain relevant?

@SonnetForSpring

Long covid sufferers are going to need a lot of NHS care in the future. It all costs money and stretches resources.

Yes. Matt Hancock was reportedly concerned about this.

But long covid is a different issue and not relevant this post however much you pretend it it.

It is not a different issue at all. The highest the rates of transmission, the higher the rates of long covid. It's not rocket science.

@SonnetForSpring

Long covid sufferers are going to need a lot of NHS care in the future. It all costs money and stretches resources.

Money which comes from businesses being open with people working and paying taxes, something the talking heads of 'Indie' SAGE prefer not to think about.

Pagel is a mathematician who has styled herself as an epidemiologist.

Independent SAGE are as far removed from independent as you can get. Their whole reason for being is that they didn't like what the government were doing so they set up their own group.

They have repeatedly failed to acknowledge the "side effects" of prolonged lockdown measures, such as the damage to children from being out of school, the economic damage and the impact that can have on public health etc. They are a useless blinkered group of wannabees who exist solely because of the "Tory = Bad" mentality.

And I speak as someone who fucking hates the Tories.

Independent sage do not want the numbers to get out of control again, especially with this new indian variant which is out competing the kent variant at a rapid rate. It just cannot be denied. Sticking our heads in the sand is not the answer. Being proactive is the answer. Seriously, why is it so difficult to understand.

@SonnetForSpring

Independent sage do not want the numbers to get out of control again, especially with this new indian variant which is out competing the kent variant at a rapid rate. It just cannot be denied. Sticking our heads in the sand is not the answer. Being proactive is the answer. Seriously, why is it so difficult to understand.

What would you do?

Mathematicians are best placed to understand stats.

@SonnetForSpring

Long covid sufferers are going to need a lot of NHS care in the future. It all costs money and stretches resources.

The cost of keeping it as a non issue is incredibly high

Independent sage seem pretty extremist to me. They seem to be the other end of the spectrum to piers Corbyn et al.
Piers doesn’t have the government’s ear so why should Indy sage?

The damage - long repeated lockdowns, mental and physical health impact, one of the highest death rates in the world, AND a trashed economy was because the government prioritised and continues to put first international travel.

Why did the government import the Indian strain and other variants? Just because exported the UK strain doesn't mean we have to take in new ones.

Lol has SAGE been right on anything so far? Why should anyone even listen to these medical grifters

@UsedUpUsername

Lol has SAGE been right on anything so far? Why should anyone even listen to these medical grifters

Yes they have been right. Again and again.

But - déja vu.

Marsha, I think they have to get through to people that this is not the end and things are not going to go back to normal this year. Boris is misleading people and it's dangerous and people are ignoring the guidance and not testing. Pubs opening inside is daft IMO. As is mass groups of people. It is nearly summer, we should try and remain outside. Wear masks, space and wash hands etc. And surge test and test some more. I know many parents at my parents primary school are not doing the lateral flow tests.

@UsedUpUsername

Lol has SAGE been right on anything so far? Why should anyone even listen to these medical grifters

yep without scientific input we wouldn't have any vaccines, we wouldn't have the roadmap out of lockdown, we would have had cases escalate as in Europe.

They are right pretty much most of the time, great isn't it.

@sashagabadon

Independent sage seem pretty extremist to me. They seem to be the other end of the spectrum to piers Corbyn et al. Piers doesn’t have the government’s ear so why should Indy sage?

Because they make sensible suggestions backed up by scientific data maybe?

I don't think SAGE will find any support whatsoever for cancelling the easing of lockdown UNLESS they can absolutely prove that the vaccines do not work with this variant, and therefore put many millions of lives at real risk OR it is infecting and making young people seriously ill.

I am not interested in preventative lockdowns based on hearsay.

The Indian variant may or may not be more infectious/dangerous but we can not continue this cycle! We have to trust the vaccines to do their work.

If another mutations springs from it, well there is not much we can do about that, if it is going to happen it will anyway. The best course of action this time would be to either ask the most vulnerable to shield, and pay them to do so, and carry on. Or to carry on anyway.

I do not agree with this scaremongering.

Give us the proof that the vaccine are useless or it is killing younger people, or keep quiet. That is the politest way I can express my feelings.

@Tealightsandd

The damage - long repeated lockdowns, mental and physical health impact, one of the highest death rates in the world, AND a trashed economy was because the government prioritised and continues to put first international travel.

Why did the government import the Indian strain and other variants? Just because exported the UK strain doesn't mean we have to take in new ones.

So you've shoehorned both your hobby horses - long Covid and international travelling - into a thread on a completely different subject.

Change the record or start a new thread. Or two.

Indy Sage would probably have been more cautious last summer and therefore reduced school closures.
Last summers free for all was clearly going to be a mistake. It should be ok with vaccines but I have better things to do than prolong this so I'll be cautious for quite some time yet.

Also, unis should not be opening face to face. Masks should remain in secondary schools.

@SonnetForSpring

Marsha, I think they have to get through to people that this is not the end and things are not going to go back to normal this year. Boris is misleading people and it's dangerous and people are ignoring the guidance and not testing. Pubs opening inside is daft IMO. As is mass groups of people. It is nearly summer, we should try and remain outside. Wear masks, space and wash hands etc. And surge test and test some more. I know many parents at my parents primary school are not doing the lateral flow tests.

Ok thanks

I did think numbers from indoor hospitality was really low? I actually thought they’d gone to court on this but may be wrong, one sector was fighting it

The group stuff is more research atm I think? So lots of testing and looking at data which is good

But also what are people looking at that concerns then. I admit I’m drifting off from all the number stuff but a quick google shows deaths, hospitalisation and cases are very low.

What are you looking at what is worrying people numbers wise?

@megletthesecond

Indy Sage would probably have been more cautious last summer and therefore reduced school closures. Last summers free for all was clearly going to be a mistake. It should be ok with vaccines but I have better things to do than prolong this so I'll be cautious for quite some time yet.

I seem to have missed 'last summer's free for all'.`When did that happen?

The UK no longer ranks as one of the worst death rates in the world. IIRC we are now mid table for Europe.

@herecomesthsun

Some fine reading for you on the people beclowning themselves as part of SAGE:

www.spectator.co.uk/article/How-did-Sage-get-it-so-wrong

www.bbc.com/news/health-54976192.amp

I don’t necessarily agree with everything on these articles but it paints a dire picture of the people involved

[quote UsedUpUsername]@herecomesthsun

Some fine reading for you on the people beclowning themselves as part of SAGE:

www.spectator.co.uk/article/How-did-Sage-get-it-so-wrong

www.bbc.com/news/health-54976192.amp

I don’t necessarily agree with everything on these articles but it paints a dire picture of the people involved[/quote]
"beclowning themselves"!

Is that a word?

It should be!