Independent SAGE: Lockdown easing must be delayed

[FriedHam]

I see Independent sage have said that the lockdown easing planned for Monday must be cancelled. This would mean that pubs and restaurants would remain closed indoors and home visiting would not be permitted.

www.theguardian.com/world/2021/may/12/indian-covid-variant-calls-in-question-17-may-reopening-in-uk-say-experts

Christina Pagel of independent sage has said this is necessary because of the Indian variant spreading across the country. However, there is no evidence that the vaccines are any less effective against the Indian variant.

Personally I'm just not sure that we can justify keeping businesses closed for longer and the inevitable job losses that will follow on the off chance that a particular variant may cause problems for the vaccine.

So is this a real danger that necessitates cancelling the easing or a desperate attempt by independent sage to remain relevant?

@Tealightsandd

I do accept that a small number of people have suffered after effects from covid. As with any other virus.

However, there is just no evidence that a lot of the ailments being claimed as 'long covid' actually have anything to do with covid. Many of the people claiming to suffer it have never even tested positive.

Also you have to remember, it's not a black and white case of either the vaccine is effective or it isn't. It reduces severity, so with another variant it might not reduce the severity as much, but all of this depends on the individual and the context in which they caught covid, viral load/level of exposure. Lots of unknowns is all I'm saying. So the smart thing would be to go slowly. Hence why I think unis going back is a nightmare. Probably the worst thing we could do.

[quote FriedHam]@Tealightsandd

I do accept that a small number of people have suffered after effects from covid. As with any other virus.

However, there is just no evidence that a lot of the ailments being claimed as 'long covid' actually have anything to do with covid. Many of the people claiming to suffer it have never even tested positive.[/quote]
That means nothing. The breathlessness and fatigue are real. Some things are not easy to gain evidence for because you can't neatly separate out the factors.

@SonnetForSpring

Also you have to remember, it's not a black and white case of either the vaccine is effective or it isn't. It reduces severity, so with another variant it might not reduce the severity as much, but all of this depends on the individual and the context in which they caught covid, viral load/level of exposure. Lots of unknowns is all I'm saying. So the smart thing would be to go slowly. Hence why I think unis going back is a nightmare. Probably the worst thing we could do.

So basically, you're saying that we should continue to tank the economy and society out of fear of hypothetical 'variants' which don't yet exist and may never exist?

A lot of people think fatigue means just being a little bit tired. They don't realise it's often utter and complete exhaustion, struggling to get out of bed even, unable to walk far without getting breathless, etc.

Iced purple, I'm not saying that. I'm saying we need to test all the time and isolate properly when required. Also, ventilation, masks and space where possible. Thing is people aren't testing or isolating, that is what is causing us to have to lock down and that is what is crashing the economy. Just being responsible and adapting to the situation we find ourselves in.

Uni students aren't even vaccinated!

Thing is people aren't testing or isolating, that is what is causing us to have to lock down and that is what is crashing the economy.

That's not true though, is it?

Unless you've got evidence?

Just being responsible and adapting to the situation we find ourselves in.

But numbers are getting lower all the time - they're already very low - and soon all adults will have been offered a vaccine. This discussion is about moving forward, not chastising people for not being 'responsible'. Just how long do you think it is reasonable to expect people to isolate - with all the costs it brings about in so many ways - if cases continue to fall?

Saw on twitter Sage are having an emergency meeting about this tomorrow. I feel sick with anxiety about all of this.

There is no evidence that any of the Indian variants evade the vaccines to a worrying degree.

Continued lockdown is an insanely high price to pay to prevent long Covid or to guard against the hypothetical prospect of a resistant variant emerging.

What’s the purpose of independent Sage anyway, other than attention seeking in the media?

If you actually read the Guardian article, it isn't just people from Independent Sage but also Sage and other scientists that are expressing concern.

Scientists absolutely are concerned. Those in the know said all along that it was stupid to open up too soon and that we should have had proper quarantine measures on arrivals from abroad for this exact reason. They weren't listened to.

@Wakeupin2022

The rate in my city is very low and still dropping.

How has the Indian variant spread so much when people have had to self isolate on return from overseas and non essential travel has been banned for months now?

Sorry but I'm fed up now. I have not seen my family for a very very long time to protect others and enough is enough.

Because people have been unable to obey the rules and this globalist government doesn't believe in shutting boarders untill too late

@IcedPurple in order for it to get here in the first place some must of not isolated on arrival and some were using loopholes and coming in via other areas it had to arrive via people in the first place and without fully closed borders you will get some cases and variants .
We should ban all travel for sometime and no holidays either for a few months I refuse to follow any rules of they backtrack now whilst people can go in holiday and ait on a plane with hundreds

Because people have been unable to obey the rules and this globalist government doesn't believe in shutting boarders untill too late

I'm getting really tired of seeing the public blamed for not obeying rules It is well recognised that compliance has been far higher than anticipated

@SonnetForSpring but the testing is much better now

Let's all just lock down until we die of natural causes in our bubble wrap rooms.
Well apart from the tesco delivery guys, obviously.

@TheKeatingFive

There is no evidence that any of the Indian variants evade the vaccines to a worrying degree.

Continued lockdown is an insanely high price to pay to prevent long Covid or to guard against the hypothetical prospect of a resistant variant emerging.

What’s the purpose of independent Sage anyway, other than attention seeking in the media?

No price is too high and the risk to us all must be zero. Im guessing people in support of this don't drive or cross the road.

@StealthPolarBear thats the thing isn't it a lot of people saying stay lockdown etc have safe home working jobs.
Personally I think tiers will poss re emerge

Anecdotally vaccine helps with long covid symptoms. I do hope so for those suffering.

Thankfully the uk will have far fewer now we are vaccinating

We should ban all travel for sometime

You want to ban all travel? Really? Nobody gets in or out? Including the people who deliver food and other goods the country depends on?

Not going to happen and a very good thing that is too. People need to give up with the zero Covid zealotry.

A desperate attempt by independent SAGE to remain relevant

Do you seriously believe this to be a possibility OP? What a completely bizarre thought process.

I believe that the new variant is a ticking time bombs.

@IcedPurple chill out. I think they are talking about international travel because that’s where leak is coming from. It’s ridiculous to stay on our toes because of all the bee variants it’s like chasing our tails. Until the other nations catch up with their vaccines, we will always be under threat from all sorts variants. Block the leak.

I think they are talking about international travel because that’s where leak is coming from

Well yes. International travel, which includes hauliers coming in and out of the country all the time, bringing in essential goods.

Until the other nations catch up with their vaccines, we will always be under threat from all sorts variants. Block the leak

The rest of the world isn't going to be vaccinated for years. And this obsession with 'variants' is getting silly. None have been shown to evade vaccines significantly. Living - or not living - in fear of hypothetical 'variants' is ridiculous.

In any case, the borders are not going to be closed and travel will not be stopped, though it may be restricted for some time. It's a pretty fundamental right to be allowed to leave a country.

@PurpleRainDancer

Given that independent sage are funded by an anti-Tory campaign group, it's certainly a possibility. Especially given that many members of independent sage are not epidemiologists or virologists.

They are also pushing for a ludicrous zero covid policy so it's very possible that they think their doom-mongering will help achieve this.