Independent SAGE: Lockdown easing must be delayed

[FriedHam]

I see Independent sage have said that the lockdown easing planned for Monday must be cancelled. This would mean that pubs and restaurants would remain closed indoors and home visiting would not be permitted.

www.theguardian.com/world/2021/may/12/indian-covid-variant-calls-in-question-17-may-reopening-in-uk-say-experts

Christina Pagel of independent sage has said this is necessary because of the Indian variant spreading across the country. However, there is no evidence that the vaccines are any less effective against the Indian variant.

Personally I'm just not sure that we can justify keeping businesses closed for longer and the inevitable job losses that will follow on the off chance that a particular variant may cause problems for the vaccine.

So is this a real danger that necessitates cancelling the easing or a desperate attempt by independent sage to remain relevant?

You are actually proud of that aren't you.

Why would I be ‘proud’, I’m not talking about me, I’m stating facts about my neighbours.

We actually have to work as a group in the face of serious threats

Problem is we’ve abandoned all other human needs and requirements to the cause of Covid. People not under serious threat themselves were never going to do this forever. You should be immensely surprised and grateful they held out as long as they did. There is no precedent in history for mass ‘lockdown’ like this.

@SonnetForSpring

You're wasting your energy Marsha. It won't change things.

I’m not wasting energy apart from bothering to google because you didn’t believe something

I welcome it but always prefer data driven approach

Btw what exactly are you thinking it is? If sectors are open we have the choice to do things, we may go back to masks being optional as they were

We know the facts and risks by now if hospitalisation doesn’t need us to act a certain way then we don’t need to change behaviour to same extent

What are you so worried about you’ve displaced more energy on reacting so strongly

Ok fine. I agree, humans are going to do what they want and covid is never going to leave us and many more millions of people around the world will die. We will bring our children up to learn that we sacrifice those who are vulnerable in the name of capitalism. We will regress our ethics and moral responsibilities. Cannot wait. Oh hang on, maybe I would rather wear a mask, test, wash hands and ventilate. Oh no, you're right. Too much effort and I want MY personal freedoms. To hell with the vulnerable

I'm not worried. I'm unbelievably frustrated at how people cannot cope with the basic restrictions of masks, testing, ventilation, washing hands. Seriously, people all over the world live with much worse and don't complain about it half as much.

@SonnetForSpring thats just over the top
We still have restrictions in place and you can still do all those things
But covid is likely to be around for a long time all the scientists believe that

The sentiment against testing gets to me in particular.

@SonnetForSpring

Ok fine. I agree, humans are going to do what they want and covid is never going to leave us and many more millions of people around the world will die. We will bring our children up to learn that we sacrifice those who are vulnerable in the name of capitalism. We will regress our ethics and moral responsibilities. Cannot wait. Oh hang on, maybe I would rather wear a mask, test, wash hands and ventilate. Oh no, you're right. Too much effort and I want MY personal freedoms. To hell with the vulnerable

You’re being very ott on this

We have vaccines now
No it the virus go away but it won’t always be a health crisis
Would you like your children to have jobs when they get older or happy to make their lives immeasurably hard

• Won’t go away

[quote worriedatthemoment]@SonnetForSpring thats just over the top
We still have restrictions in place and you can still do all those things
But covid is likely to be around for a long time all the scientists believe that[/quote]
It's not over the top. That's exactly what will happen if people go with personal choice over collective discipline. That's why personal choice will not happen in a civilised society.

I'll support another strict lockdown when amazon and tesco delivery people and similar get to wfh or be furloughed on full pay and taxes rise accordingly. Until then we need to get on with our lives. We don't live like this for anything else.

Sonnet can you try and picture the difference when this personal responsibility occurs?

What do you think it should be like instead

You’re judging against now when things will be different due to vaccination programme

I'll support another strict lockdown when amazon and tesco delivery people are furloughed or wfh on full pay and taxes rise accordingly. Until then we need to get on with our lives. We don't lock down for any other problem.

We may have a good level of vaccination but the rest of the world don't. We are a species. Not just a country.

Broaden your outlook.

Do you struggle to understand the climate crisis too?

@SonnetForSpring

We may have a good level of vaccination but the rest of the world don't. We are a species. Not just a country.

Broaden your outlook.

Do you struggle to understand the climate crisis too?

You’re too rude to engage with.

I’ve asked normal questions but you snipe away.

Good luck with the anger. Have a good day.

@TheKeatingFive

which surely will have an impact on face to face teaching.

It’s very unfair to keep denying students this. There’ll be a lot of pushback if this continues into next academic year.

I think the power lies with the unis sadly. I think senior uni management is far more worried about staff retention than student wellbeing.

Do we have enough lateral flow tests for us all to do say one a week? It’s all so vague at the moment. Some are doing it twice a week while barely leaving the house, others aren’t bothered at all. It’s a public health message mess.

To be fair to sonnet, its not their fault they're scared. The government has done a right job with their psychological warfare. Can you actually believe that one year ago in 2020 UK, drones were sent out by the police to spy on people going for a walk in the fresh air (getting vitamin D, helpful), one police force was threatening to check shoppers' bags to ensure they.had.no non essential goods and people were pilloried for going to the beach?

Meanwhile in factories, shops, takeaways, busses and hospital wards etc staff have had to work closely together without the required distancing.

Some of you who are pro lockdown, how are you getting your shopping, your bins emptied, your medicines, your takeaways, etc? Some of us haven't had the option to "be safe". Wouldn't you agree that since we've been doing all that (so normal work with much more stress than usual) without our normal ways to relax, we've maybe done enough? Or is that still not enough for some of you and are we still selfish for wanting our lives back?

I can't speak for anyone else but I'm not scared.

I just don't seem to have the cognitive biases so many other people seem to have.

I'm not hamstrung by multiple illogical assumptions or binary all or nothing, either/or thinking.

I don't indulge in wishful thinking, denialism, parroting the line of my tribe, or conspiracy theories.

I've learned from the past 16 months of covid.

If the government plough ahead with the reopening, and gaslight us that the four tests only apply to June 21st, not the stages along the way we will know that they haven't learned a damn thing and "delay and see if they get away with it" is still the policy.

What about the four tests haven’t been met for Monday?

Aside from the fact some posts are painful to read in their constant belief they are must certainly be right and more right than everyone else. Even Whitty and co have the intelligence to understand it’s not fixed and things change.

Makes me wonder why they’re not advising someone somewhere instead of regaining us with our supposed flaws.

• regaling

@PrincessNutNuts

I can't speak for anyone else but I'm not scared.

I just don't seem to have the cognitive biases so many other people seem to have.

I'm not hamstrung by multiple illogical assumptions or binary all or nothing, either/or thinking.

I don't indulge in wishful thinking, denialism, parroting the line of my tribe, or conspiracy theories.

I've learned from the past 16 months of covid.

If the government plough ahead with the reopening, and gaslight us that the four tests only apply to June 21st, not the stages along the way we will know that they haven't learned a damn thing and "delay and see if they get away with it" is still the policy.

Exactly. Nice try to paint me as scared. I'm actually coping fine with it all hence why I'm okay with facing the reality and not living in denial. The narratives are boring.

I'm also not pro lockdown. I do wonder if some of you can read.

Marsha, you seem to give taken this all quite personally. It's not actually about you.

@MarshaBradyo

What about the four tests haven’t been met for Monday?

Well we don't know about 2.

Were the 4 people who have died of B1617.2 vaccinated?

Or 3.

Infection rates have doubled or tripled in a week in many parts of the country, some for three consecutive weeks.

Or 4.

Is B1617.2 a game changer that increases the risks? (Orange line below.)