Shocked at how anti vax it seems to have got on here

[daisiesinmay]

Haven't been on this board for maybe a week and it seems to have some real scaremongering about AZ vaccine now. People are losing sight of the benefits I think because cases have gone down, but if they start to go up again and people are refusing vaccines then we'll have problems.
I remember when this board started up it was people all worried about the virus. Has the anxiety just transferred to the vaccine? FWIW had my AZ and no regrets

@murbblurb

Fucking LISTEN, people. Several have told you that the risk of blood clots isn't higher for under 40s, it's the relative risk of death/disability from covid.

It really isnt hard.

It is hard for some to understand that though otherwise they wouldn't keep asking the same questions 😕

@Alonim

It’s not anti vaccines. Just concern about the AZ vaccine. There’s a big difference between the two.

Making a big deal about trivial risks of a particular vaccine may not be designed to be anti-vax, but it is -

It makes people less likely to take that vaccine
It makes people more like to be concerned about vaccines generally.

Regarding AZ, it seems to me that there are tiny risks for some demographics. It makes sense for those people to take other vaccines. It also makes sense for the to take AZ if we lived in a world where there were no other choice - but there is.

FWIW I am not in a risky demographic for AZ - I took AZ - slight sore arm and felt less than 100% for 24-36 hours. When I say less than 100% - slight fuzzy head and temperature; not bad enough to miss a trip to the pub in normal times!

Vaccination skepticism is a sign a stupidity. Borne of a complete inability to assess and appreciate risk, which affects every single thing we do every day. With AZ it is a minuscule risk, much smaller than the risk (albeit of a different type of clot) that women run every day in voluntarily taking the OCP.

@TheKeatingFive

There are more more important people than me making decisions on lockdown.

What about the ‘more important people than you’ making decisions on vaccine rollout. They’re all working in conjunction with each other:

You’re happy to devolve responsibility to one set of important people, but not the other. Interesting.

Pmsl. Not remotely interesting 🤭

@Scrfgkesjwjrf

Vaccination skepticism is a sign a stupidity. Borne of a complete inability to assess and appreciate risk, which affects every single thing we do every day. With AZ it is a minuscule risk, much smaller than the risk (albeit of a different type of clot) that women run every day in voluntarily taking the OCP.

Lovely. I’m sure that will change hearts and minds.

There is a huge difference between having questions and/or concerns about some of the vaccines and being anti vax!

[quote MercyBooth]@babbaloushka Would you be happy for a devoutly religious employer or business/service provider to consider you for employment or whether or not they will provide you with their service based on whether or not you have had an abortion or whether or not you take hormonal contraception. If we go down the road of domestic medical passports this is entirely possible.[/quote]
My having an abortion doesn't encroach on the safety of others, so it is not necessary to disclose. Not being vaccinated does present a risk to the safety of others, and I think it ought to be the business's right to mitigate that.

@daisiesinmay

That's sad Sunnyfreezesushi I fear we will get more of this. People don't seem able to see how rare the AZ risk is, and don't seem to be balancing it against the risks from Covid and long Covid

Under a certain age and if healthy the chance of dying from covid is just as rare as the chance of getting blood clots from the az vaccin.

Plenty of us aren't anti-vax. There simply are different options and that might hesitate us to take AZ when you can also get pfizer or moderna

Pmsl. Not remotely interesting

Gosh, what a mature and thoughtful response to my post. 🙄

Exactly! I was advised not to take the pill & don't due to family history of blood clots so of course when I had the vaccine & they changed the advice I was anxious, that doesn't mean I'm a stupid anti vaxxer.

@XenoBitch We had to provide proof of vaccination in order for my DD to attend University. It was hardly an intimate personal detail, just one that proved she didn't provide a risk to other students.

‘ Fucking LISTEN, people. Several have told you that the risk of blood clots isn't higher for under 40s, it's the relative risk of death/disability from covid.’

Actually the absolute risk as we understand it today is also higher for the younger age groups (under 50). Look at the EMA data.

Indeed, the 'I'm really worried posts' .... hmm .... lots and lots it seems just to scare... it's what anti vax do....take a small worry or very very small chance of side effect and magnify out of all proportion and share share share. The anxiety prone become even more anxious then...job done.

There is a lot of this I agree.

Vaccination skepticism is a sign a stupidity

That's actually quite offensive. I have BAME friends & family who have mistrust due to entrenched inequality not stupidity.

@Scrfgkesjwjrf

Vaccination skepticism is a sign a stupidity. Borne of a complete inability to assess and appreciate risk, which affects every single thing we do every day. With AZ it is a minuscule risk, much smaller than the risk (albeit of a different type of clot) that women run every day in voluntarily taking the OCP.

Exactly, and COVID also presents a massive risk of clots.

Not being vaccinated does present a risk to the safety of others, and I think it ought to be the business's right to mitigate that.

But retail, hospitality & travel will be opening up before staff who tend to be younger will have had even one jab. Should they not open until all staff are jabbed?

Some posters encouraging UK citizens to get the AZ vaccine live in a country where the cut off is higher than 30. Interesting.

@rarat

Not being vaccinated does present a risk to the safety of others, and I think it ought to be the business's right to mitigate that.

But retail, hospitality & travel will be opening up before staff who tend to be younger will have had even one jab. Should they not open until all staff are jabbed?

In an ideal world, no, and front-facing roles would have had priority, but obviously that wasn't how it was offered and would have presented quite an administrative task. As it stands, they ought to be able to choose who they offer business too, just as individuals can choose whether or not to be vaccinated. Freedom of choice goes both ways, and doesn't include freedom of consequences.

Some posters encouraging UK citizens to get the AZ vaccine live in a country where the cut off is higher than 30. Interesting.

But is it a country where they have more Pfizer/Modena/other in the mix? It’s not necessarily because their countries think that AZ is more dangerous, they just have more of the alternatives so it’s a much easier decision. If, over here, it’s about delaying the vaccination programme or over 30s having AZ then that is a completely different decision for the authorities to make than it is for those countries.

@JeanClaudeVanDammit

Some posters encouraging UK citizens to get the AZ vaccine live in a country where the cut off is higher than 30. Interesting.

But is it a country where they have more Pfizer/Modena/other in the mix? It’s not necessarily because their countries think that AZ is more dangerous, they just have more of the alternatives so it’s a much easier decision. If, over here, it’s about delaying the vaccination programme or over 30s having AZ then that is a completely different decision for the authorities to make than it is for those countries.

yes it’s this

risk v reward based on objective stats.

OP, your initial question was couched in a very binary either/or way. I.e., if you dare ask any questions then you are automatically an anti-vaxxer. That says a lot more about your need to live in a simple, one-track world than it says about those who are raising genuine questions and/or speaking about their anxieties (and a lot of posters here would rather that people who are enxious simply shut up and don't ever, every talk about it - and therefore show their lack of emotional intelligence in the bargain).

@babbaloushka My having an abortion doesn't encroach on the safety of others, so it is not necessary to disclose. Yeah, try telling that to the child, how about their safety?

In an ideal world, no, and front-facing roles would have had priority, but obviously that wasn't how it was offered and would have presented quite an administrative task. As it stands, they ought to be able to choose who they offer business too, just as individuals can choose whether or not to be vaccinated. Freedom of choice goes both ways, and doesn't include freedom of consequences.

I think it's a grey area personally.

There are some questions to be answered, for instance those who have had the blood clots, would they have got them anyway from covid? and is there less risk for people having the 2nd AZ if they had no reaction first time round. I don't have faith in the government particularly but I do have in the scientists who've developed and tested the vaccine and I do think they're doing all they can with the aim of keeping people safe.

On an individual level of course people will and should question the vaccine before having it, I'm just saying that on this MN board, there's a lot of posts which might cause people to become very worried about what is a small risk, and say for example they are mid to late 40s with a dc in school they are obviously taking a risk already from the virus, and need to weigh up the whole picture.

OP, your initial question was couched in a very binary either/or way. I.e., if you dare ask any questions then you are automatically an anti-vaxxer. That says a lot more about your need to live in a simple, one-track world than it says about those who are raising genuine questions and/or speaking about their anxieties

I disagree

I'm super bored of all the threads that are titled 'I am worried about getting the AZ vaccine'. I (try to) understand but it doesn't need to be a new thread everytime. Its killing the board.