Shocked at how anti vax it seems to have got on here

[daisiesinmay]

Haven't been on this board for maybe a week and it seems to have some real scaremongering about AZ vaccine now. People are losing sight of the benefits I think because cases have gone down, but if they start to go up again and people are refusing vaccines then we'll have problems.
I remember when this board started up it was people all worried about the virus. Has the anxiety just transferred to the vaccine? FWIW had my AZ and no regrets

Are you saying you think it's safer to remain unvaccinated than have AZ if you are late 40s and living in the UK

Statistics are blunt, it depends on the individual & their circumstances.

I would feel safer around people who had been tested and proved to be negative

Lateral flow tests don't do this. They don't prove you don't have covid, possibly around a half of people with covid would test negative.

Trying to shut down conversations about it is way more harmful imo.

@XenoBitch

Well that's fine but it's the principle of vaccine passports that people object to on the basis that they will push people into having a vaccination when they wouldn't have otherwise done so as they want to access certain services/benefits. If that's the objection then the option of showing that you have tested negative seems to mitigate that concern, at least partially.

On balance, you are much less likely to have covid if you have been vaccinated than the average non vaccinated person. Requiring tests for vaccinated people would be unnecessarily burdensome for a minimal additional reduction in risk in my view. Either/or (vaccine or negative test of proof of previous infection) seems fairly proportionate.

how did you feel about that? Shit timing for you.

Tbh I had more stressful things going on but that didn't help, made me distrustful though. I've already had covid too.

@AppleJane

Who is discussing it?

Not differentiating between those who are at a higher risk of covid and those who are not you mean? Would the numbers of those who are more at risk of covid and that are under 30 significantly skew the results (I don't know the answer but I assume that there are a lot fewer people with conditions that put them at a higher risk of severe covid in the under 30 age range than in other age ranges).

The problem with the way the government has handled this is that it gives the real anti vaxers (the ones who think Bill Gates will be controlling you) ammunition. Transparency is important

The nudge theory really pissed me off.

@Sunshinegirl82 I've seen it on MN. I don't know the answer either! But you could even argue that anyone who has already had covid with no serious symptoms is more at risk from the vaccine than covid maybe? I think it's very complicated.

@rarat

The problem with the way the government has handled this is that it gives the real anti vaxers (the ones who think Bill Gates will be controlling you) ammunition. Transparency is important

Very true.

@daisiesinmay

Are you saying you think it's safer to remain unvaccinated than have AZ if you are late 40s and living in the UK Providora ?

The Government put out a diagram with the risks going by age, maybe someone can link it. What country are you in?

I'm in Australia, where Pfizer is recommended for under 50s. I believe other countries (Canada, Germany?) have imposed a higher age cutoff of 55-60 and some aren't using AstraZeneca at all.

Personally, I am not anti-vax at all, I'm fully vaccinated for everything else as are my children, but being in my late 40s I am hesitant about AZ specifically.

The population level stats make it look very low risk but I don't think there's been enough analysis yet of the clotting disorder cases linked to AZ to really understand who is more at risk and what underlying conditions may contribute. Is my personal risk of dying higher than the 0.0001% or whatever across the whole population if I'm on the pill or there's a family history of stroke? How does that compare to my risk of actually dying of covid? Nobody can tell me yet.

I had the AZ vaccine and will have the 2nd as for me I feel the benefits outweigh the risk. Not entirely convinced for teenage dds but ultimately the eldest will make her own choice. I personally wouldn't want to encourage anyone to have or not have the vaccine in case it was the wrong decision.
Ie have vaccine and get blood clot or not and get COVID.
Unfortunately I have an anti vax Aunt who has been using every method possible to talk me and the rest of the family out of the vaccine. Every death within 28 days of vaccine is caused by vaccine but every death within 28 days of COVID test is something else like pneumonia caused by mask wearing or they had pre existing conditions and were about to die anyway.
It is a worry.

they had pre existing conditions and were about to die anyway
The pre-existing conditions thing pisses me off really badly as it includes so many things that have nothing to do with Covid.

People are equating "pre-existing conditions" with "unhealthy" and therefore "don't matter".

I think many people would be shocked to realise that they themselves would be considered to have pre-existing conditions.

Sorry about above post but that was a relief to get the anger out .

@StarCat2020yes it's a bugbear of mine too.

What dispicable comments OP. A discussion striving to be further informed about the pros and cons of vacines is not anti vaxer...i say that as someone whos had the AZ first does, will have second too.

^^^ This is my view also, and I'm waiting for my second dose of AZ too!! Healthy discussion and informed choices are a good thing.

Some vaccination facts.

www.covidfaq.co/Claim-Vaccines-were-rushed-and-might-be-unsafe-fa5a911616044816b1bd690c9918b0ad

[quote vera99]Some vaccination facts.

www.covidfaq.co/Claim-Vaccines-were-rushed-and-might-be-unsafe-fa5a911616044816b1bd690c9918b0ad[/quote]

2) Just because a medical condition occurred after a vaccine doesn't mean it caused it.

I would suggest this information is now out of date considering the latest yellow card data. They now know there is a direct link with AZ and the reactions. I don't think those 32 deaths are in question.

Have the vaccine, don’t have the vaccine. Everyone has different circumstances (and assessment of risk it appears). I’m 44 and off to happily have the. Astra Z today as those odds on a blood clot are tiny. Yet I have no idea what the impact of Covid would be. I slightly swayed by seeing a healthy friend suffer for well over 10 months with after effects of Covid.
I’d also like to protect those around me and I work in close proximity to other people.

I like the analogy that the vaccine is designed to be safe yet Covid really isn’t and is a massive unknown.

I think the problem is some views on here are swaying people who are undecided to not have the vaccine. They are reading things/views on here and making their minds up based on that. I don’t know but that just doesn’t sit right with me. I’m all for free speech and debate but people are being influenced.

@rarat

The problem with the way the government has handled this is that it gives the real anti vaxers (the ones who think Bill Gates will be controlling you) ammunition. Transparency is important

I unfortunately know one of those. They believe the 5G conspiracy theories as well. I have no time for them or their 'theories'.

There was someone on here last night (now deleted) basically saying we are poisoning ourselves with the vaccine and I do class that as anti vaxx bollocks rather than discussion.

I’m all for free speech and debate but people are being influenced.

But influence goes both ways hence you have the press stories of "I nearly died from a blood clot" or "DH died from a blood clot" but we still recommend the vaccine. I don't doubt the validity of those stories just the fact that not everyone in the same circumstances will feel quite so positive but I've not read those stories.
Debate & transparency is the best way of shutting down rubbish. It's why we ended up with Brexit, rather than remain extolling the positives & benefits they went with leavers are racist eg no debate.

it’s broadly the same risk of death from AZ vaccine whatever your age. Broadly a very very low risk.

the difference for ages is how that risk compares to your risk of dying from covid.

the benefits of being vaccinated with AZ far outweigh the risk of not being vaccinated after 40.

Government put out clear stats showing this.

Under 30s - the risk of death from AZ is higher than not getting vaccinated. Both risks are very low. BUT that doesn’t take into account risks of long covid etc. but it makes sense for them to give them another vaccine.

the risk of death from AZ is higher than not getting vaccinated.

This is dependent on prevalence of COVID. It might be higher now, but not when COVID is rampant.

@TheKeatingFive

the risk of death from AZ is higher than not getting vaccinated.

This is dependent on prevalence of COVID. It might be higher now, but not when COVID is rampant.

agreed. and with variants - it is more important that everyone has some immunity to it so stop transmission.

let’s remember that we only reduced numbers by locking down. it remains to be seen where numbers go as society unlocks, and when international travel resumes

much of the rest of the world is very much still in a pandemic

it remains to be seen where numbers go as society unlocks, and when international travel resumes

Exactly. And if all under 40s decide they don’t want AZ, then the numbers will skyrocket soon enough.