Shocked at how anti vax it seems to have got on here

[daisiesinmay]

Haven't been on this board for maybe a week and it seems to have some real scaremongering about AZ vaccine now. People are losing sight of the benefits I think because cases have gone down, but if they start to go up again and people are refusing vaccines then we'll have problems.
I remember when this board started up it was people all worried about the virus. Has the anxiety just transferred to the vaccine? FWIW had my AZ and no regrets

If you’re over a certain age (and I don’t know the precise data but definitely 40) your risk for a blood clots or serious effects are far greater from Covid than from the AZ vaccine. What is the argument against that or don’t people believe it?

I’m quite worried as we were doing so well with the vaccinations. I understand once you get to the 20s age group about risk/benefit but I hope we don’t start to see a drop off in 40s and 30s as this could cause a huge problem going forward.

@NearlyAlwaysInsane

OP, your initial question was couched in a very binary either/or way. I.e., if you dare ask any questions then you are automatically an anti-vaxxer. That says a lot more about your need to live in a simple, one-track world than it says about those who are raising genuine questions and/or speaking about their anxieties (and a lot of posters here would rather that people who are enxious simply shut up and don't ever, every talk about it - and therefore show their lack of emotional intelligence in the bargain).

@babbaloushka My having an abortion doesn't encroach on the safety of others, so it is not necessary to disclose. Yeah, try telling that to the child, how about their safety?

The "child" is not around to make objection, the comment was about a religious employer denying me a place at work due to my choice to abort. My abortion does not encroach on their safety in any way, and is therefore a moot point.

But is it a country where they have more Pfizer/Modena/other in the mix?

Nope.

I think that lots of MNers ignore the whole Covid board but those who are anti vaxx or ‘concerned’ about the vaccine actively seek out the Covid board. It gives a skewed impression of how MNers (as a whole) feel about the vaccines.

I’ve had my first dose of the AZ vaccine, I wear a mask in shops and I’m just getting on with things. I’m not sure what this board is actually for?

Very anti-lockdown too (not just in the current low case numbers, but during the peak as well, when the UK had a world-beating death rate).

Interest groups/parties/lobbyists get their staff/members to join and post. it is like their job so they post regularly and pile onto any threads they don't agree with and annihilate anyone with an opposing opinion. These are usually normal people with other jobs etc and so they just give up...

Can be identified by saying lockdown/vaccines/masks are causing more deaths than covid or threaten to kill themselves if lockdown isn't lifted/mask-wearing stopped etc.

Fail to acknowledge that any NHS staff have ever died from Covid etc.

When people go food shopping they check ingredients, some opt for foods that are organic others feel diary is not for them, some are vegan etc and people decide what they want to put into their body.
When people go clothes shopping they look at the material or the shape style and decide which items they want to wear based on colour, style, size, ethically made etc.
When people go on holiday they look at countries that are safe based on other people's trips (not in a war zone, good food hygiene, family friendly, activities etc).
People who have cancer are sometimes offered life saving unlicensed drugs, these patients are given all the options and make an informed decision.

Opting in and agreeing to be part of a clinical trial for these vaccines is an extremely difficult decision for most. All the risks that come with the unknown and how we are all individuals with various health and social differences has an impact on the results.
I would not describe any hesitation or declining the offer to be part of the clinical trials as anti vaxx. I think it's just that people have done lots of reading and thinking and said it's not for them.

Hopefully when they offer children aged twelve and over to be part of the clinical trials from September with parents consent many of the yellow card reports will have been ironed out and children will not suffer blood clots, rashes, headaches, vision problems, worsened period pains and all the other many symptoms that people have reported so far.

@TooManyPlatesInMotion

There is a huge difference between having questions and/or concerns about some of the vaccines and being anti vax!

I agree with that 100%.

However that isn't the full story.

Valid questions and concerns can contribute to the problem, especially if the question or concern is badly expressed, and especially if many of the responses are from anti-vaxxers or ill-informed people.

I think that there is a very strng argument that the only responsible thing to do - especially if you care about society and not just yourself - is to assume that the latest government guidelines are the best science we currently have and do what they say in silence. The only reasonable response to anyone asking questions or being anti-vax is "do you care about society? If you are anything other than a completely selfish POS then please refer to your doctor and get a vaccine ASAP if it's safe for you to do so".

Well we’re all different. I’m so grateful that science has found a way out of this. We’re basically vaccinating an entire population (bar the very young ones) when you vaccinate on that scale there will be side effects and no medicine is 100 percent safe.
Thanks goodness most people don’t think the way some on here do. Otherwise where would we be going forward?

I have a very selfless friend who was part of the Novovax trials. As many on here were. People trying to help and find a way out of this mess. I cried when the first vaccines were approved.

Hopefully enough will have the vaccines so we can get back to some normality. It’s a personal choice but I’m very grateful for all those who did the ACTUAL clinical trials and for those who are having the approved vaccines.

@Deevil - I heartily agree. At election times it’s chronic. One particular faction leapt on certain threads and would love bomb them on behalf of a certain aspirant leader: no discussion, just propaganda. The usernames never posted on any other topics.

The anti-Vaxxine brigade are cannier - they like to plant worry and fear under the guise of looking for information. That’s why they keep starting new threads - once a question is answered or a discussion ensues, that’s no use. They need a steady stream of scary thread titles.

I completely agree with you @Delatron. I can remember feeling optimistic for the first time in ages when the first vaccine was approved. One of my friends was part of the clinical trials and like you, I'm grateful to the people who did it (my needle phobia prevented me doing it).

@JediGnot Agree with that, I understand wanting to discuss it, but holding the opinions of anonymous posters on a forum with the same weight as accredited scientific experts is ridiculous. There is a personal dimension to the decision, but overwhelmingly, there is a wealth of scientific resources online that exclude the random, anecdotal reservations some people express on here.

Thank you to your friend Delatron.

It’s amazing to see the volunteer stewards at the vaccination centres, giving up their time to stand in car parks or spray the tables with Dettol. So many people are doing what they can to help and protect others.

I am most definitely pro vaccine and have had my own vaccine which happened Pfizer . DH has had the AZ vaccine which I think is the right thing to do as he is in his late 50s and there is chance of him being seriously ill with Covid .

However . I look at my son and his girlfriend, early 20s, they have both had Covid, very mild symptoms and if they were to say they didn't want the AZ vaccine I would completely understand this .

@Delatron

Well we’re all different. I’m so grateful that science has found a way out of this. We’re basically vaccinating an entire population (bar the very young ones) when you vaccinate on that scale there will be side effects and no medicine is 100 percent safe. Thanks goodness most people don’t think the way some on here do. Otherwise where would we be going forward?

I have a very selfless friend who was part of the Novovax trials. As many on here were. People trying to help and find a way out of this mess. I cried when the first vaccines were approved.

Hopefully enough will have the vaccines so we can get back to some normality. It’s a personal choice but I’m very grateful for all those who did the ACTUAL clinical trials and for those who are having the approved vaccines.

Me too. There’s a lot of negativity on here but I’m very grateful and relieved.

Many of the covid threads here are unique on the mainstream open internet in spreading misinformation about the pandemic. I can only surmise that either MN doesn't care or is making too much money by having humming threads that it's a financial consideration. Either way, it's a disgrace particularly when many here have health anxiety/depression issues and they play into those fears and concerns.

It’s just an amazing effort all round isn’t it? I have a vaccination centre at the bottom of my road and I often well up when I walk past. Amazing, selfless people giving up their time. I’ll be there in precisely 45 minutes having my jab and I’m so grateful.

Discussion is good but let’s be honest, non of us onhere (well most!) are medically qualified. I’ve read some awful untrue scaremongering stuff about vaccines (dressed up as ‘discussion’) then seen posters subsequently say ‘oh I won’t be getting my jab now’. Job done then. Makes me sad really. Is that free speech? Or influencing others when you have no credentials to do so...

The anti-Vaxxine brigade are cannier - they like to plant worry and fear under the guise of looking for information. That’s why they keep starting new threads - once a question is answered or a discussion ensues, that’s no use. They need a steady stream of scary thread titles

Yes, this is exactly their modus operandi. As vera99 says ,MNHQ don't seem to care that this is going on. There was one poster a few weeks ago who started thread after thread after thread about the AZ vaccine (and has since vanished or name changed). MNHQ did nothing.

@Nightbear I think the coronavirus topic board was originally created so all discussions around anything to do with it (lockdown, stats, symptoms etc) could all be in one place and not encroach onto the chat and AIBU topic boards .

Didn't work !

At least MNHQ tried.

Fucking LISTEN, people. Several have told you that the risk of blood clots isn't higher for under 40s, it's the relative risk of death/disability from covid.

If you’re over a certain age (and I don’t know the precise data but definitely 40) your risk for a blood clots or serious effects are far greater from Covid than from the AZ vaccine. What is the argument against that or don’t people believe it?

Here is where I go with this and I might provide you with 'an argument' against it.

I am 46, I am extremely healthy. I know this because I have had multiple health checks in the past few years (fitness related). I have the metabolic health of someone in their 20's.

I have had Covid.

The general stats may say that over 40's are at more risk of Covid, but there will be individual cases where that is not true (i.e. very healthy and already had Covid).

GIven that over 65% of people over 40 are overweight or obese, I can see how we arrive at that stat. But within that 35% of over 40's, there will be people who are at more risk from the vaccine than getting Covid....well, I literally know that to be true because I was only ill with Covid for about 2 days and it wasn't anywhere near the worst thing I have ever had.

You can't know every individual circumstance. I feel like I have sacrificed a year of my normal life for people who were vulnerable already. I don't see how me taking this risk is anywhere near worth it for me. I see that this is now an unacceptable thing to say - yet somehow it has been OK for a year and continues to be OK to have to sacrifice things and take risks for others. Because I feel coerced into having the vaccine, when I know it is not in my best interests, it is a difficult pill to swallow.

I would not describe any hesitation or declining the offer to be part of the clinical trials as anti vaxx.

Calling the vaccines clinical trials is provocative and you know that. Exactly the sort of thing I'm talking about. The fact is, trials were carried out before the vaccine was approved by the proper bodies and regulators. As pp have said, the trials were thanks to those brave souls willing to take the risk. The vaccine once approved is being rolled out. To say it is still in trial is needlessly causing anxiety.

Up to you what you do hamstersarse You're taking a decision and not spreading anxiety around to others. However, others in your position might equally think, my immune system will cope fine with the vaccine and it gives me an extra layer of protection.

I don’t trust this government at all and their advice and handling of the pandemic has been shocking.

So I’m not remotely surprised that a lot of us feel anxious about this particular vaccine.

@daisiesinmay

Up to you what you do hamstersarse You're taking a decision and not spreading anxiety around to others. However, others in your position might equally think, my immune system will cope fine with the vaccine and it gives me an extra layer of protection.

I already have immunity - I have had the virus.

I don't even feel like I need an extra layer of protection. I find it all pretty gaslighty tbh - what do I need protection for? I have a good immune system which has immunity for Covid.

No one needs to be scared I am passing the virus on anywhere.