Anyone feeling increasingly anxious about Pfizer?

[Doireallyneedaname]

With all the news re the AZ & J&J vaccines I can’t help but feel a sense of dread when checking the news.

I am starting to think it’s only a matter of time until something horrific comes out about the Pfizer vaccine (which I had)

What a strange time to be alive. Sometimes I still can’t believe this is all happening.

@pinkearedcow

I think you have to remember that what is happening is fairly normal in the life cycle of any new medicine. The difference is that there has never been a new medicine that has been rolled out so extensively to such a huge number of people in such a short space of time (at least I don't think there has?). So, side effects and deaths are happening in a concentrated time frame, instead of over several years.

For example, if the AZ vaccine had been given to 18 million people over a period of 5 years and there had been 19 deaths over those 5 years from blood clots, would you still be worried about the risk?

Excellent point very well presented.

I certainly wasn't force fed anything.

I feel very relieved to be living in this era.

Had both jabs now and no side effects whatsoever.

@EnidSpyton no one is forcing you to have anything, but you realise that every, single concern you hold for the vaccine equally holds true for the virus right? No one has extensively tested that for safety, in fact we know it's not safe. And no one knows what, if any, effects of having had COVID may be come apparent 1, 5, 20 years down the line.

Yellow fever vaccine causes severe organ failure in 1 in every 200,000 cases or so.

We could all choose not to take the vaccines and continue living under lockdown forever but it would be shit.

It’s not a choice between VACCINE or LOCKDOWN. We do have an immune system, you know. How do you think humanity survived pandemics in the past, before vaccines?

We could have just shielded the vulnerable, and let covid transmit through the younger/healthy population who have no greater risk from covid complications than they face for seasonal flu until we reached natural herd immunity, and then the vulnerable could come out again.

I’m not saying this is what we necessarily should have done, but it’s something we certainly could have done, no vaccines needed.

[quote Doireallyneedaname]@Scottishgirl85 I can’t think of any medicine I’ve taken that has a risk of CVST after one dose.[/quote]
The contraceptive pill can (yes, these sort of clots) link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10072-014-1914-2 and casereports.bmj.com/content/2017/bcr-2017-222418

Cyclosporin can www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6081151/#R2

Pregnancy can (yes, this sort of clot) pmj.bmj.com/content/76/891/12

Heparin can.

And covid can pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33520667/

One of the things I'm hearing a lot is that this is some special form of clot caused specifically by vaccines. Not true. Yes, it's less common than DVTs (although both can kill or disable) but it's not a unique clot only linked to the vaccines. Other common drugs and conditions cause it, probably significantly more frequently than the vaccine does.

It’s not a choice between VACCINE or LOCKDOWN. We do have an immune system, you know. How do you think humanity survived pandemics in the past, before vaccines?

We could have just shielded the vulnerable, and let covid transmit through the younger/healthy population who have no greater risk from covid complications than they face for seasonal flu until we reached natural herd immunity, and then the vulnerable could come out again.

I’m not saying this is what we necessarily should have done, but it’s something we certainly could have done, no vaccines needed.

But we didn’t. Public opinion swayed the government from that course early on and now it’s seen as unpalatable. So our choices now, are vaccines or lockdown.

@Terracotta9

We could all choose not to take the vaccines and continue living under lockdown forever but it would be shit.

It’s not a choice between VACCINE or LOCKDOWN. We do have an immune system, you know. How do you think humanity survived pandemics in the past, before vaccines?

We could have just shielded the vulnerable, and let covid transmit through the younger/healthy population who have no greater risk from covid complications than they face for seasonal flu until we reached natural herd immunity, and then the vulnerable could come out again.

I’m not saying this is what we necessarily should have done, but it’s something we certainly could have done, no vaccines needed.

We do have an immune system, you know. How do you think humanity [sic] survived pandemics in the past, before vaccines?

The human race survived. Many individuals did not. It's not that long since 40 was considered "old".

So many people are getting side effects OP, you are definitely NBU.
My pharmacist (early 70’s) had her first jab and now says she has ‘aches and pains’ all over weeks later.
A friend felt rough for days.
My hairdresser’s neighbour, a 36 year old taxi driver became ill after his first jab and died.
Honestly I don’t know many people and this scares the hell out of me.
Why risk it considering that so few people actually die of Covid?

Did you read the bit about shielding the vulnerable?

Covid only has a significant mortality/complication rate for those who are old and/or have other health issues.

Terracotta9 it was never an option to just shield the vulnerable, that is beyond naive. Children, parents, doctors, nurses, any and all sorts of people are vulnerable and you can't shield all these groups indefinitely, that would be cruel. Humanity survives pandemics of course, but individuals, even whole swathes of society (think of the Black Death) often don't. The toll long Covid will take on younger people is only beginning to emerge.

Naive? That’s literally been the typical pandemic response since time immemorial.

A general lockdown, such as what we have seen with covid is unprecedented.

Alas, the typical pandemic response since time immemorial has mostly involved mass graves.

We're trying to do this one better.

Have you been equally worried over the years by blood clots caused by contraception.
You appear to be "borrowing" worry. You didn't have AZ. You haven't had side effects.

Me and dp were having this conversation today as he isn't going to have the vaccine as he says it's too risky.
Right after he took some paracetamol in the morning for an injury then topped it up with some nurofen in the afternoon. He was also partial to some drug taking in his youth, but apparently that's all different.

Has he read the leaflets with his painkillers?

Had second Pfizer yesterday. Sore arm now wearing off just as it did last time.

I'd have taken my chances with Covid even though statistically they're nowhere near as good but if this is what it takes to lift the shitstorm I'm happy to have taken one for the team.

If a 1:250,000 of a blood clot is "horrific", I'd like to know what adjectives you use for, you know, actually horrific things!

You're catastrophising...

It’s not a choice between VACCINE or LOCKDOWN. We do have an immune system, you know. How do you think humanity survived pandemics in the past, before vaccines?

Yes, humanity survived previous pandemics as a species, but that's surely not the standard you want to apply to dealing with Covid... "oh, it won't make us extinct, so just ignore it!"

Alas, the typical pandemic response since time immemorial has mostly involved mass graves.

Mass graves?

The mean death age for covid is 80.

It’s overwhelmingly a fatal disease for the old and ill.

@Grimbelina

Terracotta9 it was never an option to just shield the vulnerable, that is beyond naive. Children, parents, doctors, nurses, any and all sorts of people are vulnerable and you can't shield all these groups indefinitely, that would be cruel. Humanity survives pandemics of course, but individuals, even whole swathes of society (think of the Black Death) often don't. The toll long Covid will take on younger people is only beginning to emerge.

Agreed, naivety is blameless ignorance.

I think this is deliberate ignorance. Some people just can't deal with rules, even ones designed to keep them safe, so they seize on any excuse to oppose them, no matter how ridiculous.

All I did was point out that it’s not a binary choice between VACCINES or LOCKDOWN FOREVER

That’s just blatantly untrue.

I'd love to know how people think you can 'shield the vulnerable' while everyone else carries on.

Who feeds, cares or and checks on the vulnerable? Who cooks and cleans for them? Who repairs their boiler or looks after their feet? Who is their neighbour, postie, anyone who does anything?

All these people have families all infecting each other and unless you have full hazmat for people visiting them, it doesn't work.

Society is a system, all interconnected.

I think people forget how many 'vulnerable' there are and where they live.