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Now 79 cases of AZ-related blood clots in the U.K. and 19 deaths *title edited by MNHQ at OP's request*

392 replies

Boringlynormal · 07/04/2021 15:32

How have we gone - in the past 10 days - from:

5 cases - all men
To
30 cases, 7 deaths
To
79 cases and 19 deaths, 2/3 of them are women.

What the hell is going on?!

Yes I know it’s still low compared to overall number than have had the vaccine but that’s not reassuring when they don’t seem to have had a clue about the numbers and let us all continue getting the vaccine with no warning even when Europe was sounding huge alarm bells.

I’m 12 days post AZ, mid 30s and very upset.

OP posts:
Nith · 07/04/2021 16:37

Not the same kind of blood clot. At all

A serious blood clot capable of obstructing blood flow is just as serious whether it arises from Covid or from AZ. You won't be any safer just because it's a "different kind" of blood clot. The difference is that if Covid isn't kept in check then the risk from blood clots and indeed all the other effects of Covid is a hell of a lot greater than the risk from vaccine.

Moondust001 · 07/04/2021 16:37

@Lazierdays

Gosh some people are losing perspective somewhat here. Pregnancy, the pill, long haul flights and Covid still all have a higher risk of clots than the AZ vaccine.
I think that part of the problem here is that the Government have successfully mounted a deliberate campaign of fear mongering for the last year, to the point where people are now almost determined to live in fear. Never before have people - almost an entire population - spent so much time thinking about the risks of dying! Provided you are actually alive, there is and always has been a risk of dying, and that risk does increase if you are older or have ill health (or, in fact, are poor, which is associated with premature death and poor health). Get in a car - you are taking a risk. Anyone care to say what your risk of dying from complications arising from flu are - they are higher than you think. There is literally nothing we do, no medication we take, no virus or bacteria that we come across, that is "safe". The risks are small, but they are there.

And without wishing to suggest that Covid should be dismissed as a risk, we have been subjected to a sustained and unprecedented psychological campaign of fear-mongering to coerce compliance with laws and guidance. We can argue all day if those laws / rules were all necessary or not, but that is not my point - my point is that the general population have never lived for such a long period of time having to face their own mortality. Not because they were mostly at risk at all, but because they have been frightened into thinking that way. And that is both unhealthy and habit forming; but without the information on which to properly assess risk in relation to heir own lives. I'm not suggesting people are stupid, simply that most people are accepting of what they are told, or lack the time or understanding to risk assess properly. And truthfully who does that - I am a driver but I would have to look up what the risk of dying in a crash is, because I don't know off the top of my head. Why would I - I am going to drive!

So what I think we are seeing now is the logical extension of the last year - genuine fear because people have become used to living with that fear, and yet have not properly been able to balance the facts. Because they have been subjected to what is a very disturbing experiment in the control of populations.

I'm not a conspiracy theorist by any means, but that doesn't mean that governments (and others) do not set out to deliberately persuade us of things that are, at best, misleading. Advertising has been doing it for decades, so why wouldn't governments use it to their advantage? And now is is backfiring because they want people to do something, but fear of death is stopping them, even though the risk is significantly lower than, not just of Covid, but thousands, perhaps millions of things they do all the time!

Lemonandlime123 · 07/04/2021 16:37

Can anyone explain to me how/why the vaccine would cause a blood clot?

Constance11 · 07/04/2021 16:37

I wonder if all the women who have suffered blood clots are also on the pill?

Circumlocutious · 07/04/2021 16:38

Just don’t take your 2nd jab and leave it for someone else who wants it. You’re being melodramatic and obsessive and will probably still be posting in 6 months about how you want to turn back time.

Rainbowsandstorms · 07/04/2021 16:38

@milveycrohn

Someone earlier mentioned long haul flights. It is often recommended that one take an aspirin an hour before a long haul flight, which last time I flew long haul, I did, as I know someone (male), who did develop DVT after a long haul flight. Has this been suggested at all, or is it a different type of blood clot. How does the incidence compare to taking the contraceptive pill, which can occassionally also cause problems.
@milveycrohn aspirin isn’t recommended to reduce risk, as the clotting is seen alongside a platelet disorder that reduces your blood’s platelet count and therefore reduces general clotting ability too.
Wherediditgo · 07/04/2021 16:38

I’m getting more and more unsure about getting a vaccine as time goes on. I’m mid 30s.

Be interesting to see what happens to these clotting numbers when my age group starts to get vaccinated more widely!

Anyone know how many, say under 40s have been vaccinated so far?

LookAChicken · 07/04/2021 16:39

Well a risk of four in a million wouldn't come up in a medical trial.
This is a scientific response to evidence gathered.

Lactuwoes · 07/04/2021 16:39

They are telling under 30s not to start with this vaccine, quote risks all you like, all day long, the scientists are telling under 30s not to have this vaccine.

InkyWinky · 07/04/2021 16:40

@Boringlynormal

They really don’t know if second doses are any safer as not many younger people have had them. I’ll sit tight and see what emerges but at the moment I wouldn’t have a second dose.

It’s the escalation that concerns me. It’s safe, LESS risk of ‘blood clots’ than in the general population about 2 weeks ago and then in a very short time it’s 79 cases, 19 deaths and a probable link but they don’t know why. I just don’t trust that that means they’re now up to speed with what the fuck is going on. What else don’t they know? What’s going to emerge next? How many more deaths till it’s banned for under 40s? Etc.

I’m not trying to be alarmist but I am alarmed. Oh for a time machine back 12 days to not get this vaccine.

Oh for a time machine when you could have a dose of COVID instead. That would be so much better than having a vaccine that has not given you any serious side effects. Hmm
Susie477 · 07/04/2021 16:40

I sympathise with the scientists who are trying to explain complex data on comparative & relative risks to a largely innumerate media & public. They did a good job today.

I would encourage anyone who wants to understand what’s going on to watch today’s briefing & pay particular attention to Prof Van Tam’s very clear slides & explanations.

I have had one dose of AZ, and based on what I have heard today, I will definitely be getting my second dose when the time comes.

Boringlynormal · 07/04/2021 16:41

A serious blood clot capable of obstructing blood flow is just as serious whether it arises from Covid or from AZ.

The mortality rate for these blood clots is far higher. And they have no idea who is more at risk. I can’t be prescribed the pill due to a minor risk factor. But they’ve no idea who’s more at risk of this complication from AZ. You can’t equate them.

OP posts:
ASchuylerSister · 07/04/2021 16:41

I watched the press conference. I’m in my 30s and would still take the AZ vaccine if offered it.

toocold54 · 07/04/2021 16:42

I get that you’re worried OP but every single medicine or vaccination has side effects most of which you probably don’t even read the entire leaflet that comes with them.
And of course there are risks around us all the time: pets can spread deadly diseases, car accidents, cancer etc. You are more likely to get a blood clot with the covid virus than the vaccine and if you don’t have one with the first you don’t get one with the second and your body had already had one dose. Of course if you don’t feel comfortable don’t have it done but it makes no difference to the side effects if you have one or two doses.

LookAChicken · 07/04/2021 16:42

Susie I sympathize with the scientists too.

Annebronte · 07/04/2021 16:42

We need to accept that all medical interventions have a degree of risk. There’s no such thing as an absolutely safe medical procedure. To put the Covid vaccine in perspective, general anaesthesia puts you at a much higher risk of death than the AstraZeneca jab. Covid is a nasty and unpredictable disease, with the potential for awful long term effects with long Covid, and I’m very keen to be vaccinated against it, even though my risk factors are fairly low.

LookAChicken · 07/04/2021 16:43

Op were you watching the press briefing today? It might answer a lot of your issues.

toocold54 · 07/04/2021 16:44

I wonder if all the women who have suffered blood clots are also on the pill?

I don’t know about the pill for definite but it’s why our scientists wouldn’t confirm that the vaccination causes blood clots themselves as it was other factors too.
Not may under 30s have been offered a vaccination yet unless they are clinically vulnerable already - this may already increase their blood clot chances.

LlamaDrama20 · 07/04/2021 16:44

I thought the press conference was excellent and JVT explained clearly why they are making the decisions they are making. I was totally reassured by the decision-making process. I would be more concerned if the MHRA and EMA were not releasing latest data and revising the vaccine strategy accordingly!

These numbers are TINY in the context of the number of people vaccinated. I think the reason the numbers look like they have risen rapidly is because the data gets released in tranches (e.g. fortnightly/monthly, not daily). Even so, 79 is still very low.

Unfortunately some people can't, or won't, engage with the factual data, so those of us who can/do need to help them understand the concept of relative risk and the value of the vaccine.

Boringlynormal · 07/04/2021 16:44

Oh for a time machine when you could have a dose of COVID instead. That would be so much better than having a vaccine that has not given you any serious side effects. hmm

Covid in my age group is actually unlikely to have even made me as ill as the vaccine made me. That said, it’s obviously not the flu like side effects that have made me change my mind.

OP posts:
Moondust001 · 07/04/2021 16:45

@Lemonandlime123

Can anyone explain to me how/why the vaccine would cause a blood clot?
That is the million dollar question because they don't know yet. They are still not 100% sure that it does. The current position is that there are statistical indications that the vaccines may be connected to these particular deaths - and the AZ one does not seem to be the only one showing this possible link. But they simply do not know right now. They are erroring on the side of caution by assuming it does until there is proof either way.
ParadiseIsland · 07/04/2021 16:45

The issue here is that they’ve hidden the information until they couldn’t hide it anymore.

Which is crap tbh. The government response fro covid has been horrendous but i thought they did well with the vaccine.
Welll no. They fucked people’s trust again (if not the program itself)

Gwenhwyfar · 07/04/2021 16:45

@Lazierdays

Gosh some people are losing perspective somewhat here. Pregnancy, the pill, long haul flights and Covid still all have a higher risk of clots than the AZ vaccine.
All things that are totally optional and that people know are risky.
ASchuylerSister · 07/04/2021 16:45

Here are the slides for low, moderate and high levels of Covid in population. I think van tam said we’re currently in between low and moderate but a wave would be the high one.

Now 79 cases of AZ-related blood clots in the U.K. and 19 deaths *title edited by MNHQ at OP's request*
Now 79 cases of AZ-related blood clots in the U.K. and 19 deaths *title edited by MNHQ at OP's request*
Now 79 cases of AZ-related blood clots in the U.K. and 19 deaths *title edited by MNHQ at OP's request*
Megan2018 · 07/04/2021 16:46

If I'm offered it I will have it without a second thought.
I happily took the contraceptive pill for years with a much higher incidence of blood clots. The risk is absolutely tiny and no causal link is proven yet (and likely won't be).