Now 79 cases of AZ-related blood clots in the U.K. and 19 deaths *title edited by MNHQ at OP's request*

[Boringlynormal]

How have we gone - in the past 10 days - from:

5 cases - all men
To
30 cases, 7 deaths
To
79 cases and 19 deaths, 2/3 of them are women.

What the hell is going on?!

Yes I know it’s still low compared to overall number than have had the vaccine but that’s not reassuring when they don’t seem to have had a clue about the numbers and let us all continue getting the vaccine with no warning even when Europe was sounding huge alarm bells.

I’m 12 days post AZ, mid 30s and very upset.

Statistically it is still tiny. Even with the update.

Your chances are still much much higher developing clots catching covid.
Additionally your chances of having organ failure, brain damage, lung damage, long covid and/or actually dying are clearly increased as well. Those saying they only have had a mild case of covid last time are not factoring in getting covid a second time and having a far worse outcome. You are not bullet proof just because you survived the first time.

Please look at Brazil, 4000 died in one single day - that is the alternative.

@ParadiseIsland

The issue here is that they’ve hidden the information until they couldn’t hide it anymore.

Which is crap tbh. The government response fro covid has been horrendous but i thought they did well with the vaccine.
Welll no. They fucked people’s trust again (if not the program itself)

Oh get a grip with your conspiracy theories!

Nothing has been hidden - it is being declared now as it's only now that there is a significantly large enough population of people vaccinated for it to be even identified (that's how RARE it is!).

This is completely NORMAL for any kind of drug/vaccine programme - it's not unique to the covid vaccine.

Next time you pop any kind of tablet in your mouth take 5 minutes to read the Patient Information Leaflet in the box - especially the list of Common/ Rare/ Extremely Rare side effects. You might get a shock!

Funnily enough a few weeks ago when the EU temporarily stopped using AZ vaccine, there were loads of posts on MN calling them fuckwits and saying it was a conspiracy theory. Now apparently there is something in it....

"To put the Covid vaccine in perspective, general anaesthesia puts you at a much higher risk of death than the AstraZeneca jab. "

Hardly comparable. It's pretty difficult to get general anaesthetic precisely because it's risky. I also presume it's less risky for a given individual once they've had it before with no adverse effects.

Op you are being hysterical though, just calm down and think about what the statistics actually mean. Your actual risk. No just look at 19 deaths. 19 deaths given the sheer volume of vaccines administered is still really really low, and we still have no reason to believe it was the vaccine. It is still unproven.

*The issue here is that they’ve hidden the information until they couldn’t hide it anymore.

Which is crap tbh. The government response fro covid has been horrendous but i thought they did well with the vaccine.
Welll no. They fucked people’s trust again (if not the program itself)*

Absolutely. The German watchdog and several others identified this data weeks ago and acted on it in a precautionary manner. It undermines both credibility and trust that it has taken the UK till now given we are so much further ahead in the programme and it is a UK developed vaccine.

Also interesting what the presser said about country profiles and life expectancy. Quite a strong hint that vaccines may prove to be on the cusp of risk vs benefit for young developing country populations which was supposed to be the major deployment area for the AZ vaccine in the first place.

They said that 23% of people with Covid in ITU develop some type of blood clot.

I’d rather take my chances with the vaccine.

@Susie477

I sympathise with the scientists who are trying to explain complex data on comparative & relative risks to a largely innumerate media & public. They did a good job today.

I would encourage anyone who wants to understand what’s going on to watch today’s briefing & pay particular attention to Prof Van Tam’s very clear slides & explanations.

I have had one dose of AZ, and based on what I have heard today, I will definitely be getting my second dose when the time comes.

They actually answered the question I had which is what is my risk of being hospitalised from Covid versus my risk of a serious blood clot. However, I don't think the whole thing inspires much trust, especially all the twists and turns in information, all the efforts in the UK to portray the EU as being politically motivated in criticising the AZ vaccine.

@Boringlynormal

Age range of deaths from 18 - 79 so why the ban for under 30s?

It isn't a ban. Nothing has been banned.

Back in December/January, when some people said they were a little wary of using a brand new vaccine, they were roundly branded as idiots who don't understand science, told that they are stupid and that vaccines almost never cause side-effects, that anything serious would've shown up in the phase III trials, etc.

I know nobody will admit to being one of those people now, but there were threads full of them, so whoever you were, I hope now you might have a little think and maybe not be such a dick in the future.

@toocold54

For context, JVT said the ‘high exposure’ graph indicates the relative risk levels during the peak of a virus wave, as we had in January in the U.K. and is currently happening in France.

Thanks a lot!

I missed that!

Well I’m in France and I had covid last October in the second wave. I’m early 40’s and felt like I had a hangover for 3 days but was still able to make the DC their meals and was not bedridden by any stretch. No longer term symptoms and a full recovery. To be honest I’d rather take my chances with covid again until more is known about the vaccine effects!
I saw a quote from an Italian scientist on Sky news saying that couldn’t believe people were worried about a potential blood clot risk He stated that the chances of developing this side effect were 0.007 out of one thousand and that the birth control pill holds a risk of 0.6 in a thousand and nobody worries about that. Well covid holds a 0.6 risk of non survival in the vast majority of people and yet we have stopped the world for that!

Funnily enough a few weeks ago when the EU temporarily stopped using AZ vaccine, there were loads of posts on MN calling them fuckwits and saying it was a conspiracy theory. Now apparently there is something in it....

Yep! That’s what I mean. This feels like a fast changing situation. I’m not confident we now know what we need to.

This was why many of us here decided to watch and wait before making our minds up on a vaccine

Stage four trials means something was bound to come up. I was screamed at on MN for being thick and stupid and not listening to scientists

I’m still not impressed. Covid individually to me presents a tiny risk even though I’m older than 30 as I have no risk factors. So thanks for the platitudes but I will continue to watch for medium term data.

If a third of covid cases are asymptomatic, it's even possible that those suffering blood clots already had undiagnosed covid. I don't think the data will be able to identify whether that is the case unfortunately.

@Gerla

Funnily enough a few weeks ago when the EU temporarily stopped using AZ vaccine, there were loads of posts on MN calling them fuckwits and saying it was a conspiracy theory. Now apparently there is something in it....

Yes, I find this quite interesting!

"The risk of dying from Covid is higher than the risk from the vaccine."

Apparently not for young people (or the risk of being hospitalised) otherwise they wouldn't have stopped it for the under 30s.

If you watch the press conference it gives all the information you need. Blood clots are now being listed as one of the very rare risks. There are numerous risks with any medication. This one is incredibly low. The vaccine programme continues to be a huge success.

Also why have we only found out about the extra 40 cases now? Where have they been hiding?

Are more we should know about?

What about my neighbour who has died from something “coincidental” to the vaccine? Are these being checked?

Was there an increase in care home deaths once the vaccine was rolled out in January? Do we have that data?

Op you are being hysterical though, just calm down and think about what the statistics actually mean. Your actual risk. No just look at 19 deaths. 19 deaths given the sheer volume of vaccines administered is still really really low, and we still have no reason to believe it was the vaccine. It is still unproven.

@Itsalonghaul Maybe you’re not aware but ‘hysterical’ (related to the womb and always applied to women who are upset) is a deeply sexist word.

I know my individual risk is small. As far as we know. It’s the unknown bit that I’m not happy about. Less than two weeks ago the risk was totally denied or unknown. In two more weeks will it be mostly people who are on my medication or with my skin colour?

@Ridgere

Back in December/January, when some people said they were a little wary of using a brand new vaccine, they were roundly branded as idiots who don't understand science, told that they are stupid and that vaccines almost never cause side-effects, that anything serious would've shown up in the phase III trials, etc.

I know nobody will admit to being one of those people now, but there were threads full of them, so whoever you were, I hope now you might have a little think and maybe not be such a dick in the future.

There are still posters even on this thread saying merrily to go ahead with the 2nd dose as all will be well.

Statistically it might be, who knows, but why people think it is ok to tell people something medical will be fine for someone else let alone themselves, and have no idea of anyone else's medical history, have nothing to do with medicine, and can guarantee 100% anything medical, is beyond me.

More people die from blood clots each year than the total number of people who lose their lives annually due to AIDS, breast cancer, and motor vehicle crashes combined - 60% of which are hospital associated

This is from the thrombosis website OP. Blood clots are so common but they’re not something we think of much or worry about on a daily basis.
You’re probably a lot more likely to get a blood clot due to something you’re already doing rather than the vaccination.

I’m watching the conference now on catch up but I find it difficult to process scientific stuff at speed. I understand from the graph they showed (attached) that the risk of ITU is still greater than the risk of serious harm from the vaccine in all age groups.

But I am 33, no underlying health issues, slightly overweight. I live in a part of the U.K. that has consistently had no more than 20 new cases a day throughout the pandemic, do not have a customer facing job and wfh more often than not now. DS is in primary but they haven’t had a single bubble burst throughout the pandemic. Should I not be weighing up my chance of catching covid vs chance of serious vaccine harm instead of chance of being in ITU should I catch covid vs serious vaccine harm?

I’m genuinely not being facetious, I want to understand properly.

Before any one asks - I’ve had one pregnancy, yes, but don’t take the pill because I don’t believe in putting things in my body I don’t need don’t take medication. I don’t smoke, I rarely drink and I’ve been abroad once in my entire life. Yea I drive but if I don’t commute to work I don’t get paid. I recently had a full body scan and the radiographer said I have a very healthy heart, liver, kidneys etc. Not fatty, not damaged, she said she’d expect to see organs like that in a person in their twenties.

While I’m overweight, we walk a lot. I don’t have the flu vaccine annually etc.

@Lactuwoes

They are telling under 30s not to start with this vaccine, quote risks all you like, all day long, the scientists are telling under 30s not to have this vaccine.

No they are not. They are saying under 30s with no underlying health conditions should be offered an alternative to AZ where available.