Now 79 cases of AZ-related blood clots in the U.K. and 19 deaths *title edited by MNHQ at OP's request*

[Boringlynormal]

How have we gone - in the past 10 days - from:

5 cases - all men
To
30 cases, 7 deaths
To
79 cases and 19 deaths, 2/3 of them are women.

What the hell is going on?!

Yes I know it’s still low compared to overall number than have had the vaccine but that’s not reassuring when they don’t seem to have had a clue about the numbers and let us all continue getting the vaccine with no warning even when Europe was sounding huge alarm bells.

I’m 12 days post AZ, mid 30s and very upset.

@LostToucanand @Abraxan
My SVT is triggered by infection. Nothing dietary, although I don't use salt because I dislike it, who knows that might set it off. Vagal manoeuvres work sometimes but calcium channel blockers do a good job.
I imagine covid would be a major trigger.

I'm really glad mine was sorted before I had Covid! The Covid infection raised my heart rate as it was. With svt I can only imagine the readings I'd have got!

@Abraxan

I used to have mine go on for several hours and even overnight but was advised this wasn't a good idea

My SVT seems to have massively decreased with age, but I remember a number of really unpleasant attacks - although I was a little surprised that medical staff weren’t at all concerned when it happened both times after giving birth. (“Oh, your heart rate is very high?” “I have SVT” “Oh, OK then”).

@Abraxan I think Covid is going to provide researchers with a multitude of papers for a good few years to come.

I’m worried the figures are higher than have been reported. I had terrible headaches after AZ vaccine, at one point I was in bed for 5 days and could only get to the bathroom. I telephoned the Gp 3 times as I was concerned and in pain and was given migraine tablets (didn’t work) and amyltriptilene (didn’t work). New guidance was issued and my GP sent me to A&E asking that I be examined in line with the new guidelines. I had no neurological deficit but was refused a scan of any description despite being given painkillers in A&E which still did nothing for the pain. I was sent home saying headache was most likely caused by the vaccine as it is new and they are not sure of side effects. I would have preferred to have had a CT scan but this was refused as I could close my eyes and touch my nose.

If my experience is anything to go by they are not, in my opinion, taking side effects seriously and are massively under reporting them.

@HJ40

I'm listening to it now. I wish one of the journos would ask if they'd stop it for all under 50s if they had sufficient quantities of an alternative.

I'm 42 and feeling thrown under a bus.

@HJ40. Yes, it was something I'd like them to have asked too, but for everyone.

Why only under 50's? The blood clots were in all ages up to 79. Your age isn't really relevant to getting a blood clot. It's only relevant in relation to the risk of serious illness from Covid.

20 million vaccinations - 19 deaths

Countless lives saved

Have you ever looked at the chance of dying using oral contraceptives or asprin?

Or crossing the road?

They haven't been able to confirm it's caused by the vaccine yet, they are just being incredibly over cautious.

The risk from Covid is higher, once you consider

• the vaccine lasts MONTHS, but this presentation was for 16 weeks (standard for vaccination data)

• long Covid

• that the .08 risk of ICU Covid & the 1.1 risk of a serious event after the vaccine is ONLY at a circulating level of Covid lower than we have now. On a medium level 60/100,000 , fractionally higher than we have now (around 55/100,00) but over 60 in lots of areas. The risk already swings the other way!

3/19 were under 30. 16/19 were over 30.

If we only had AZ & the EU hadn't been creating a political hoo-ha this wouldn't have hit the radar. Medicines ALL come with a risk. Frankly 19 deaths in over 20 million vaccinations (in Europe alone) really is an incredibly low risk.

Other vaccines are just as likely to be the same rate, but there hasn't been enough of them used yet to know.

The rate of occurances in m/f are likely to be the same, it's just that more women have had it so far (more female carers/health workers).

If you didn't have a problem with the first one, it's unlikely you'll have a problem with the second one and the risk from Covid is far higher.

Try not to worry.

I'll be having my second sometime this month, without any hesitation.

stratford this is not good. How do you feel now?

This is also my concern. My elderly neighbour is dying from such unspecified neurological issues post vaccine. They don’t know what is wrong but it started after the vaccine. It has been said to be coincidental.

Are any care workers noticing similar in care homes do we know?

[quote Dustyboots]@Abraxan - ask your doctors. Often they do have the answers. You just have to ask. Or do some research. There often is a way.[/quote]
Could you be any more patronising?

Roonerspismed Thank you, I still wake up with a headache but it’s not as bad as it was. I’m so sorry to hear about your neighbour. It’s very coincidental that your neighbour is suffering from unspecified neurological issues since the vaccine.

Risk factor for long Covid after having the vaccine and getting the virus? Do we know this yet?

@Noname99

I’m not ‘young’ .... in my 40s and supposed to be having the vaccine next week. But if it’s AZ, I shall be saying no. Much rather take my chances with covid .... I have no risk factors for covid so very likely it’s going to be a mild infection for me. Mild cough/cold type symptoms vs blood clot on the brain .... easy choice as far as I’m concerned!

I don’t follow your logic. The risk of death or serious illness from Covid in this age group is much higher than the risk of a blood clot from the vaccine. I’m in my 40s as well, I’ve had my first dose and can’t wait for my second.

I'd really love for some research into whether these extremely rare clots have been caused by asymptomatic or mild covid as opposed to the vaccine. It would make sense seeing as covid is known to have caused many cases of clotting.

RedcurrantPuff is right. In your 40s, your risk of covid is higher than any extremely rare possible vaccine side effect.

Once someone gets to their 40s, they do have a risk factor for covid. Their age.

@Canigooutyet

Risk factor for long Covid after having the vaccine and getting the virus? Do we know this yet?

Very much doubt it. It seems many scientists around the world are very much struggling to find out about covid. I imagine their work will take many years.

@Stratfordplace

You can report side effects yourself via the Yellow card scheme website, they don't need to be reported by a doctor.

I hope you feel better soon.

Noname99
I’m not ‘young’ .... in my 40s and supposed to be having the vaccine next week. But if it’s AZ, I shall be saying no. Much rather take my chances with covid .... I have no risk factors for covid so very likely it’s going to be a mild infection for me. Mild cough/cold type symptoms vs blood clot on the brain .... easy choice as far as I’m concerned!

Easy choice?

Chances of hospitalisation with Covid for a 40-something woman with no known underlying conditions: 1 in 3,800

Chances of blood clot; 1 in 250,000

Your comparison is ludicrous.

We don’t have enough statistics after second AZ jabs to be so cocksure about the ‘minimal’ risks.

I’ve had my first AZ jab, but I’ve also had Covid.

So, I won’t be having a second AZ jab until we know a lot more.

It’s one thing to say you would rather take the risk of accidentally getting covid than deliberately to be vaccinated, but it’s just idiotic to argue you would be safer having the real disease than having the vaccination just because “most people” of your age don’t get very ill with covid. People of all ages have died of the real thing - older people in far higher numbers because their bodies and immune systems can cope less well generally, but younger people because they sometimes have weird and violent immune responses which attack their own bodies. I fail to see why anyone would therefore conclude that they have a higher risk of dying from the vaccine than the real thing. You could argue you would rather rely on herd immunity created for you by others, or on a vastly lower risk of ever getting covid created for you by others, but there is no evidence that the vaccine is more risky than having the real disease.

But you are assuming with your stats that I would get covid. Numbers are very small right now so your stats don’t add up.

@Stratfordplace you can report possible side effects yourself too. For any medication.

yellowcard.mhra.gov.uk/

@Rukaya

Interestingly Europe have said to keep vaccinating.. we are being more cautious. They’ve undertaken a big review and I imagine it takes time to obtain a full data set from all hospitals

A few weeks ago there were multiple threads of loons screeching about how The EU was lying about AZ and scoring political points just to make the UK look bad...where are they now, I wonder?

Right here.

And they were. They were shouting that BEFORE any of the results came out.

The risk is minute. There is NOW a MUCH higher risk of people dying from Covid because of their ridiculous political idiocy.

@Boringlynormal

They really don’t know if second doses are any safer as not many younger people have had them. I’ll sit tight and see what emerges but at the moment I wouldn’t have a second dose.

It’s the escalation that concerns me. It’s safe, LESS risk of ‘blood clots’ than in the general population about 2 weeks ago and then in a very short time it’s 79 cases, 19 deaths and a probable link but they don’t know why. I just don’t trust that that means they’re now up to speed with what the fuck is going on. What else don’t they know? What’s going to emerge next? How many more deaths till it’s banned for under 40s? Etc.

I’m not trying to be alarmist but I am alarmed. Oh for a time machine back 12 days to not get this vaccine.

Take a deep breath.

I understand why you are worried. I don't actually think it was well presented.

19 people out of over 20 million people have died. Now obviously every single one of those is 1 too many & very very sad

However. that's 19 people between 18 & 79
3 under 30.

A younger person is no more at risk of getting a clot than an older person. It's just that at a low level of Covid (lower than we have now!! There's a .08 chance of an ICU bed level of Covid and a 1.1 chance of serious complications due to a blood clot.

To start with, they're still not sure the vaccine is causing the blood clots or if those people would have had them anyway.

Secondly our rate of Covid nationally is closer to moderate than low and many areas are in moderate now so you need to go to the second graph which from memory was about even chances.

Plus the benefits of the vaccination were only being assessed on 16 weeks (just the way it's done) when in fact the benefits last months & months.

Young people are only getting the alternative vaccines because their benefit of the vaccination is lower than in older people BUT that's only on a National scale, not your individual risk.

Your risk of Covid still outweighs the risk of your second dose causing any clots.

Please try not to be scared, your putting yourself at risk not having your second dose.

@Happycat1212

Surprise surprise. and anyone that didn’t want the vaccine was absolutely ripped the shreds on MN, this is what happens when you rush into things.

Jesus. No matter how many times people have explained it to you, you're still refusing to listen.

Covid is FAR more likely to cause you long term issues or death than the vaccination.

One more time...The vaccine WAS properly tested. It was not rushed. NO vaccine or medicine is trialled over decades before being put into use.

If they hadn't used the vaccine hundreds of thousands would have died.

19 deaths out of 20 million doses and the same people probably would have died of Covid (probably from blood clots) if they got Covid. The vaccination just prompts your body to make antibodies

They died AFTER the vaccine, not because of the vaccine itself.

@ASchuylerSister

Here are the slides for low, moderate and high levels of Covid in population. I think van tam said we’re currently in between low and moderate but a wave would be the high one.

Yes. We, as a country are in the low one, but many areas are in the medium one & some in the high one

It's unfortunate they focussed on the low one as it's not really the relevant comparator.

60/100,000 cases takes us into the medium one. And more areas are in that risk level

@MadinMarch

I'm awaiting my second Astrazenaca jab, and much more concerned (and bitterly disappointed) that it isn't effective against the South African strain.

It's NOT 'not effective' it's a little less effective, but it's still a more effective percentage than they'd have been happy to use a vaccine against all Covid.

It is extremely unusual to have a vaccine with such a high rate of efficacy - a drop in efficacy against the SA variant us, of course, a shame, but it's still good efficacy.