Now 79 cases of AZ-related blood clots in the U.K. and 19 deaths *title edited by MNHQ at OP's request*

[Boringlynormal]

How have we gone - in the past 10 days - from:

5 cases - all men
To
30 cases, 7 deaths
To
79 cases and 19 deaths, 2/3 of them are women.

What the hell is going on?!

Yes I know it’s still low compared to overall number than have had the vaccine but that’s not reassuring when they don’t seem to have had a clue about the numbers and let us all continue getting the vaccine with no warning even when Europe was sounding huge alarm bells.

I’m 12 days post AZ, mid 30s and very upset.

@YoBeaches I’m the same, clotting disorder so far only medicated in pregnancy when I injected blood thinners daily for the duration and for a period after, along with aspirin. I haven’t had my vaccine yet, but mid 40’s so appointment will be soon. I am terrified. I went to see my gp about it but she was quite cross with me and insistent I still get it. Every day I get more unsure and frightened about making the decision

@Abraxan - ask your doctors. Often they do have the answers. You just have to ask. Or do some research. There often is a way.

*Isn't the risk of blood clots higher with Covid than from the vaccine?"

Maybe so, but I think it's different. We're trying to AVOID Covid while being asked to go and take the vaccine so the risk analysis is different isn't it?*

This precisely, and something very few seem to consider.

I've never been 1 in a million for anything in my life.

[quote lightand]@Abraxan arthritis - try eating oily fish two or three times a week
blood pressure - try cutting down on salt quite a lot
svt - no idea what that even is
birth - cant say holistic would help with that
adhesions - op. had that myself.[/quote]
Saying patronising things like this is the privilege of the young and healthy.

Coincidentally I too have SVT and Rheumatoid Arthritis.
The idea that a crippling auto immune disease could be resolved by eating oily fish (which I do ) is beyond belief. Without the 3 drugs I take I could not walk. With them I can live a normal life.
SVT is a condition where your heart goes into overdrive and can get up to 220 beats per minute. Mine is controlled by a drug.
I also have asthma and again, controlled by drugs.

@Oly4 you're missing the point.

Are people with Asthma or other respiratory illnesses more worried about Covid than those without asthma? Yes, because they are predisposed to complications a we know this because it was measured through hospitalisation and death rates. Many were asked to shield themselves.

Are people With blood clotting disorders more worried about a vaccine that is linked to causing blood clots? Yes, because they are predisposed. We need more data.

If you're not predisposed then good, crack on - you have zero reason to be concerned (....as far as we know)

I am not young!
I am healthy though.

I also did not say it was necessarily a cure.
But it does help with those I know with arthritis.

I did not say it helped Rheumatoid arthritis[no idea if it does or not]

So lets not make 1 very wrong assumption, and read a post at least twice wrongly.

Actually YoBeaches I have asthma and also took the injections after pregnancy for blood clotting. Still had my AZ vaccine, still more concerned about Covid than a 1 in 250,000 chance of a blood clot

[quote lightand]@Abraxan arthritis - try eating oily fish two or three times a week
blood pressure - try cutting down on salt quite a lot
svt - no idea what that even is
birth - cant say holistic would help with that
adhesions - op. had that myself.[/quote]
Abraxan arthritis - try eating oily fish two or three times a week

My arthritis cannot be cured by eating oily fish, of which I already have plenty of anyway. Medication prevents me getting deformities and disabilities later in life. Fish won't do that.

blood pressure - try cutting down on salt quite a lot

My salt levels are already low. I had no issues with this until I had Covid. It isn't caused by diet. If only diet could bring it down life would be easier.

svt

It is a very fast heart rate. At its worst I needed a very powerful drug to restart it. I eventually had an operation.

birth - cant say holistic would help with that

adhesions - op. had that myself.

I have since had two operations to help with that. However beforehand I needed an awful lot of pain medication - for years before I was finally diagnosed with Ashermabs syndrome and had the old. Following them I was in very very high levels of hormone medication for 2-3 months each time.

Unfortunately, many medical issues can't be solved holistically. And not everything can be solved by diet.

It's why I trust medics rather than Mumsnetters when it comes to my health.

[quote Dustyboots]@Abraxan - ask your doctors. Often they do have the answers. You just have to ask. Or do some research. There often is a way.[/quote]
And you think I haven't done any of that over the many years?!

As per my last post, if everything could be solved holistically life could be easier.

In many cases it simply cannot be solved simply by changing diets, losing weight, doing exercise and taking vitamins.

I did ask my doctors by the way. Many of them. Which is why I have a medical pathway involving tried and tested medication and medical treatment.

@murbblurb

So much for giving people information - as this thread demonstrate s, many are way too stupid to cope.

Note the blood clot risks of flying, let alone covid. So many clearly sat in maths classes flicking their hair..

Anyone wanting 100% safe doesnt really get how life works. And I bet miss holistic medicine will be dialling 999 bloody quick if someone she cares about has a heart attack...

@Gwenhwyfar

"I read today that the chances of getting a fatal blood clot from COVID are something like 7% so you are more risk of a clot from not getting the vaccine if you look at it that way..."

Only if you actually get Covid so not a useful comparison imo.

Why not? Surely the other option is to stop vaccinating and let COVID run its course (because we cannot hermetically seal everyone in their homes indefinitely) which will mean it becomes increasingly likely people will catch COVID and run the 7% risk of clots.

I did not say it helped Rheumatoid arthritis[no idea if it does or not]

But you did suggest I tried oily fish for arthritis. Why would That be suggested in a post talking about avoiding 'poisonous' medication of not as an alternative?

I don't have RA. I have PA. if only something like fish would help it. Even if it helped the immediate issues, it's hardly going to solve the long term issue or potential damage.

I was ex with PA in my thirties. I take drugs to stop disability. This is a known tested approach. I'd not risk just having fish twice a week and how for the best tbh!

SVT is a condition where your heart goes into overdrive and can get up to 220 beats per minute.

I have that too. 35 years of experience tells me it’s triggered by too much salt in my diet or very high levels of stress (like giving birth). Fortunately the vagal manoeuvre works for me.

For the person asking what the 'usual' rate for CVT is - OK, here is some REALLY clumsy maths.

Professor Google tells me the following:

The incidence of cerebral venous thrombosis (CVT) is estimated at 0.2 to 0.5 per 100 000 per year.

This is based on a 'normal' (non Covid) year - feel free to check this fact.

On that basis, you would 'normally' expect between 5 people per million per year to get it. Multiply that by the 20 million AZ vaccinations given and you are already at 100 - there have been 79.

Obviously this is in a shorter space of time and may increase but EVEN if cases continued on the same trajectory - and given that we started vaccinating in early December and are now in April - you would arrive at 79 x 3 (3 more lots of 4 months) = 237 cases (not deaths). And of the 79 people who got clots, 19 have died - so roughly 25%, which would give us a total 'death toll' of 59 people. And that assumes we are vaccinating all the way up until the end of this year with AZ.

And this assumes no improvement in identifying the condition early even though we now know what to keep an eye out for (which I don't think is going to be the case - people and Health Care Professionals will be vigilant in the very unlikely case that they get symptoms).

Obviously - this is crude and we don't know if the second vaccine changes things, but to begin to answer the question about 'normal incidences'.

Maybe so, but I think it's different. We're trying to AVOID Covid while being asked to go and take the vaccine so the risk analysis is different isn't it?

But surely we don't want to have to live our lives avoiding Covid forevermore... If you want to be a hermit and keep yourself in a personal lockdown, because you don't want to expose yourself to a 1-in-a-million risk, then that's up
to you, but it seems rather bizarre.

Fortunately the vagal manoeuvre works for me.

I did for me too until about two years ago. It then wouldn't stop it and it had me in a and e too much. The drug to help stop it isn't much fun. The episodes increased and lasted longer and longer, with increasing heart rates. . It wasn't sustainable.

Had ablation now and fingers crossed it's now okay.

It wasn't my diet. We tried so much. Some things made it worse, but cutting them out didn't stop them entirely.

@Nith

Having the vaccine isn't a benefit for me, as I've already had COVID and wasn't ill or have long COVID.

It will give you longer immunity that simply having had Covid will give.

Says who?? No one knowS this for sure yet??

@Abraxan I’m probably just lucky then, with identifying salt as being my particular trigger. But I know what you mean - if I caught it quickly (which I mostly could) I could get back into a normal rhythm, otherwise I had up to several hours of feeling pretty rubbish. Sometimes it felt like I’d been kicked by a donkey when it flipped back to normal though.

79 cases and 19 deaths, 2/3 of them are women

We were the first to administer the AZ vaccine. Why did other countries notice the problem so much quicker than we did?

If AZ wasn't administered elsewhere, we would be none the wiser.

Yes that level of tiredness after several hours of it at 250-280bpm is dreadful isn't it.

After the first couple of very long episodes I was told to never let it go on longer than 30-40 minute or so without at least calling for medical advice.

After 25+ years of svt episodes I've finally had mine fixed. I get a high heart rate at times - 16o or so but far less often. I do get some missed beats at times. But, it's been over 18 months since I had ablation and not had another svt since.

This is my question too. when the Europeans were talking - for weeks - about their 30 odd cases we said we had five. Now it’s 80. WTF? Any more cases hiding there?

I used to have mine go on for several hours and even overnight but was advised this wasn't a good idea

Around 2% of the population have a peanut allergy. When thinking about how incredibly dangerous some basic commodities are to so many people, it’s surprising how comparatively safe vaccines actually appear to be. Also, millions of people have now had the Astra Zeneca vaccine - in my view that makes it safer to take than vaccines that have been used on fewer people, because the extremely rare risks are already becoming apparent with this vaccine, giving advance warning of side effects to be concerned about. As for personal risk, nobody really know their personal risk until it’s too late. You could be the only person on earth to react the way you do. Panicking about having already taken a vaccine because 79 people out of millions have had an odd autoimmune response to it is just a waste of energy. It’s pointless to panic about something you cannot change and to then go on and on about it ad nauseam, to the detriment of your own mental health and to no benefit to you whatsoever, because you cannot change your situation now, anyway.

@SheenMcQueen yes there is not a lot of info to go on but to add to your workings....

Of the 19 deaths 14 were in the under 50 age group which is why the younger are deemed at higher risk.

They have given 20m AZ vaccines in total - not to the under 50 group- this age group is only just rolling out so the occurrence of events will increase at a greater rate.

And we don't know any predisposing factors that could further increase events, like what if it's higher for women on the pill and have vaccine. Or people with a history of clotting and have vaccine. Or people born on a Thursday and have vaccine.

We don't know.