Those of you who don't mind or even support covid-certificates

[lljkk]

(in any context, maybe just for airplane travel or to visit a care home, "covid certificates" = covid passports, could be a negative PCR/LFT or proof of vaccine or exemption to travel or go to the pub or a gig maybe, etc)

What conditions need to be met (in your mind) for the presented covid-certs to be stopped & no longer required? What is the threshold you want to see that would make you think "It's Ok to drop that now." How would you know?

That’s what I don’t understand. If everyone is so convinced it’s works then why the need to impose additional things on us?
Surely we should be asking questions.

Vaccination works but you still ha e to social distance, wear masks and now possibly this passport ridiculous.

The potential passport has it been properly put out to tender this time or just another dodgy mates deal?

I'm equivocal about them. We need to be focused on getting as many people vaccinated as possible - and I accept certificates may be an inducement in the short term - but they aren't the magic bullet some people seem to think.

We need to get ourselves vaccinated and stop worrying about what other people do.

[quote bumbleymummy]@FrangipaniBlue because proof of a vaccine doesn’t mean guaranteed immunity or a guarantee that you’re not carrying it and can transmit it to someone else. If you’re going to require people to be tested for entry then everyone should be tested for entry.[/quote]
I've no issue with that either to be honest!

Whenever the pandemic is declared over and whenever we have more real world data regarding how well the vaccine really does perform and how long immunity from the vaccine lasts. As it stands nobody knows if those who have been vaccinated at the end of 2020/start of 2021 will still be protected come winter because well we haven't got data that long yet as it is a new vaccine. So it's much better to be sensible rather than find out in around November via huge hospital increases that antibody protection has faded for the most vulnerable who were first vaccinated and then we end up in another lockdown because the horse has already bolted yet again!

Vaccination works but you still ha e to social distance, wear masks

Probably partly because of the uproar if the vaccinated were allowed to go off and do things and those still waiting (and the refusers ) were not allowed.

@ListeningQuietly

Flu kills up to 25,000 every winter in the UK but passports and tests were never deemed necessary

That is on a very bad flu year, regardless if you really want to stick with your 25,000 figure can you not see the difference in 25,000 and 125,000?

I’m not comfortable about some kind of vaccine passport to go to a pub or stadium. It’ll just cause problems for the staff enforcing it and more division in society.
It’s an infringement on liberties. We’re all walking blindly into being under state control, carrying a certificate to prove we’ve had a vaccine!
Also surely some people will just forge them and there’s people on genuinely can’t be vaccinated.
Can’t people wise up and see where this will go.....

Until Whitty says we're safe to stop needing them.

Until EVERYBODY has been offered the vaccine
NOBODY should be penalised for not having it
to go about their daily life

PARTICULARLY young adults

I think they should be used until the WHO declares the pandemic over I am afraid I don't agree that they should only start when the vaccine has been offered to everyone. I appreciate it is unfair but it won't be long until everyone has been offered the vaccine in this country . I'd be happy for the certificates to be given after one vaccine but also for some things you might need both jabs.

Exemptioms obviously to apply to children and people who have medical reasons they can't be vaccinated ( physical reasons not anxiety or fear of needles etc). Child exemptions to be revoked if a vaccine for children becomes available.

I sound hardcore I know but articles like this are beginning to worry me. www.news.com.au/lifestyle/health/health-problems/brazil-coronavirus-strain-variant-three-times-more-deadly-for-those-aged-1845-research-shows/news-story/a8169ea1baf47f6e8dd477636aaf0c9c

I know the current vaccines may not work against the variant in the link but the reason it has appeared is because the virus is running rampant in Brazil with almost no control measures in place. We need to protect ourselves as a country as much as possible and Covid certificates are one way to do while still hopefully avoiding any more lockdowns .

@Abraxan

Vaccination works but you still ha e to social distance, wear masks

Probably partly because of the uproar if the vaccinated were allowed to go off and do things and those still waiting (and the refusers ) were not allowed.

Surely though seeing people walking around without a mask and going back to”normal” would give people faith that the vaccine works?

But the pandemic won’t end as such. There will be some form around for a very long time.
This vaccine passport won’t go away once it’s ‘ended’. Once we have it it’ll be hear to stay. I’m sure some employers will check people have the certificate before they get offered a job.
Once it’s hear, it’ll never be phased out! I’m surprised how many people support this idea!

Exemptioms obviously to apply to children and people who have medical reasons they can't be vaccinated ( physical reasons not anxiety or fear of needles etc). Child exemptions to be revoked if a vaccine for children becomes available

Why, in your view, are phobias not a reason for exemption? Phobia is a legitimate mental health condition... and some people with it have it so severe that it is considered unsafe for them to receive medication via a needle... many people with it also do not seek or accept any medical treatment.

And what about those who have religious beliefs that impacts the medical treatment they receive?
Isn’t religion a protected characteristic?

@Choccy21

But the pandemic won’t end as such. There will be some form around for a very long time. This vaccine passport won’t go away once it’s ‘ended’. Once we have it it’ll be hear to stay. I’m sure some employers will check people have the certificate before they get offered a job. Once it’s hear, it’ll never be phased out! I’m surprised how many people support this idea!

Don't care because I will be vaccinated as I have with every other vaccine available, therefore I have absolutely no issue with providing proof of that to an employer the same way I am asked for proof of many other things, drugs testing etc.

Which religions have barred the covid vaccine? Countries where the major religions are majority of the population have all been vaccinating. Christian countries are jabbing away, we have mosques as vaccine centres here, Israel (Jewish) and UAE (Muslim) leading the way with vaccinations, India (Hindu) delaying exports of AZ to make sure there's enough for its own population. I'm not sure about Sikh or Buddhist or other religions but I've not heard of any specific religious barrier. Medical, yes.

So Boris mentioned a few things that could be included in a Covid passport- 2 Covid jabs, does this not just guarantee reduced symptoms? A negative test, which tells you your negative at that moment in time. Having had Covid in the last 6 months, hence antibodies, so are we now saying those people who have already had it twice in six months were given incorrect results? How good will these passports really be? Before I get attacked I’ve had both my jabs, just wonder how reliable this passports will be, particularly after the track, trace isolate fiasco!

@Tumbleweed101

I don't think there should be any coercion, including social, for a medical procedure.

Vaccinated people should be safe. Anyone choosing not to have the vaccine will know the risks of that decision. It's actually putting me off having the vaccine feeling like I am being socially pressured to do so, whereas before the idea of covid certificates I was quite on board with having mine! I don't think anyone should be forced, especially when the vaccine is so new and the long term effects are still not known, especially for young women who may feel uncomfortable about how it might impact pregnancy or fertility.

I feel exactly the same as you! I was ok with having it but the more I hear about vaccine passports the less I am on board with it. I didn’t feel I was having it for me so much as others, given I personally don’t particularly care if I get covid. But now it just all feels too odd, the being forced.

@Tealightsandd

Which religions have barred the covid vaccine? Countries where the major religions are majority of the population have all been vaccinating. Christian countries are jabbing away, we have mosques as vaccine centres here, Israel (Jewish) and UAE (Muslim) leading the way with vaccinations, India (Hindu) delaying exports of AZ to make sure there's enough for its own population. I'm not sure about Sikh or Buddhist or other religions but I've not heard of any specific religious barrier. Medical, yes.

Some Christian communities some of them have recommended not to have j&j because it has fetal tissue from abortions. www.npr.org/2021/03/03/973428720/christian-groups-resist-johnson-johnson-vaccine-for-using-abortion-derived-cells" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">choice.npr.org/index.html?origin=www.npr.org/2021/03/03/973428720/christian-groups-resist-johnson-johnson-vaccine-for-using-abortion-derived-cells

@XenoBitch

Exemptioms obviously to apply to children and people who have medical reasons they can't be vaccinated ( physical reasons not anxiety or fear of needles etc). Child exemptions to be revoked if a vaccine for children becomes available

Why, in your view, are phobias not a reason for exemption? Phobia is a legitimate mental health condition... and some people with it have it so severe that it is considered unsafe for them to receive medication via a needle... many people with it also do not seek or accept any medical treatment.

I was asked my opinion and I don't think phobias count. I have a terrible phobia of spiders but if handling spiders stopped Covid and you needed to show you could do i

handle spiders I'd either live with not being able to do things or learn to get over my phobia . DH has a flying phobia. He was physically unable to get on a plane a couple of times with me and has full blown panic attacks. He then got a promotion that meant he ended up needing to.fly for work. He now takes a plane if he needs to,.it isn't fun but he does it. He had hypnotherapy, uses beta blockers and also did a flight simulator course. All of which meant he for over his phobia, though he still hates flying.

Phobias are usually very treatable, people just need to be motivated enough and to be able to tolerate fear , which won't actually kill them, despite what it feels like. I know I sound very unsympathetic but in the absence of any other contributory factors, a phobia of needles is not a good enough reason for not getting a vaccine in my book. Then again , luckily for those with phobias I don't make the rules.

So those supporting this

Have you raised your objections with government about the number of tourists allowed in the country?

@Choccy21

Exactly. Once they get it in place theres no going back. Feel like im banging my head on a brick wall.

Vaccine passports internationally I can understand, different countries will be at different levels of immunity and infection rates. I would hope that once the pandemic is declared over by the WHO then they would be phased out, but I'm not confident of that.

Domestically I think they are a terrible idea. Aside from the obvious arguments that they are authoritarian and discriminatory, they are illogical - once everyone has had the chance to be vaccinated the UK will almost certainly be at herd immunity. In which case what is the point in vaccine passports?

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Domestically I think they are a terrible idea. Aside from the obvious arguments that they are authoritarian and discriminatory, they are illogical - once everyone has had the chance to be vaccinated the UK will almost certainly be at herd immunity. In which case what is the point in vaccine passports?

This exactly.

If these vaccines work, how long will social distancing measures be in place? I’ve heard some people say we will love like this forever.
Surely the hospitality industry can’t survive long term with social distancing in place?
The goal posts keep moving.