Those of you who don't mind or even support covid-certificates

[lljkk]

(in any context, maybe just for airplane travel or to visit a care home, "covid certificates" = covid passports, could be a negative PCR/LFT or proof of vaccine or exemption to travel or go to the pub or a gig maybe, etc)

What conditions need to be met (in your mind) for the presented covid-certs to be stopped & no longer required? What is the threshold you want to see that would make you think "It's Ok to drop that now." How would you know?

I'd like to see passports until we have the virus fully under control - that doesn't mean completely extinguished, but I think a society in which immunocompromised people are unecessarily unable to take part in regular activities is evil.

We don't yet know the full impact of the vaccinations against transmittance, nor do we know their impact against the new mutations. If studies on both bring good news, so we're confident about herd immunity then these passports will no longer be required.

I'd happily see a covid certificate for mass events, but that would include negative tests or vaccination status. If it meant a reduction to social distancing so that things like music festivals could go ahead then I think in that situation it's a good thing. I also can see a situation where things like pubs could have a choice keep social distancing measures or use the covid certificates. Like a pp I think this would only need to be in place while we see what happens next winter so I would set a potential end date of May Day 2022.

I would not ever be in favour of a covid passport which only relates to vaccination status.

I was a bit on the fence but listening to Radio2 at the moment the Anti bloke (Sir Desmond Swain apparently) is REALLY making me change my mind. He's total loon!

1. Most people go about their lives without having to produce a piece of paper to say who they are, whether they are safe

Nope! I carry ID for my work, reassures people when I am wandering round houses I don't own; DH carries about 20 different certificates and passes, he can't get on many sites without showing more than one of them! Lots of people work with all sorts of ID and safety certs. I can't believe that (according to wiki) he's the same age as me!

1. Ooh! Facism in a tin - listener comment. Ah well! Can't argue with that, can I?

It's ludicrous. We don't have passports for other vaccines for illnesses that are much more deadly...and parents can simply choose whether they want to get this children vaccinated or not. I don't see why this should be any different.

@OpheliasCrayon

It's ludicrous. We don't have passports for other vaccines for illnesses that are much more deadly...and parents can simply choose whether they want to get this children vaccinated or not. I don't see why this should be any different.

Um becayse this ones a global pandemic..

I think at this halfway point, there is going to be a lot of understandable self-interest. If you have had the vaccine, then an app to allow you to live more freely sounds fab, but if you haven't had the vaccine then an app to allow others to live more freely than you sounds crap

I think this nails it

If you’ve had the vaccine then you’re going to likely support this, as it means you can live normally and know risks are minimised, so it’s in your interests to support it.

If you are a Covid denier or a vaccine refuser it effectively means you remain limited for another year and may even loose your job, so you’re not going to like it one little bit. So it’s in your personal interests to fight against it.

As over 80 percent of the population is being vaccinated then logic dictates there will be over whelming support for it. There is also going to be an element of “ you chose not to have it, so tough shit, stay home and swivel” going on.

Swine flu was declared a pandemic (2009). No certification required on that one at any time. what is the threshold to exceed or be within to require covid-certs to do most activities?

I think it's ludicrous especially when there are people that are unable to have the vaccine (Medical conditions, pregnancy etc.).

Any vaccine requirements to travel should be inline with the existing policies, so add this onto the yellow fever stuff to travel.

Beyond that no.

If you're going to require some proof to go places, then why not all the other viruses around us? TB, Flu, Whooping cough and more are also an issue for many of us.

I never downloaded any of the over-priced crap apps thrust upon us over the past year. And paper awesome, they will be available on the black market.

Bluntness "If you’ve had the vaccine then you’re going to likely support this, as it means you can live normally and know risks are minimised, so it’s in your interests to support it."

I've had my first and I would never support this. I don't even go to venues with T&T which has been all of them since July.

@bluntness100 you do realise some of our childhood vaccines came about because of other epidemics and pandemics yes ? This isn't the first one...

@lljkk

Swine flu was declared a pandemic (2009). No certification required on that one at any time. what is the threshold to exceed or be within to require covid-certs to do most activities?

Swine flu was very mild and didn’t lead to excess deaths, many peoooe were already immune and it was akin to seasonal flu. It was a very different thing to Covid, which has caused nearly three million deaths globally. Simply because they are both pandemics does not mean they are the same thing,

How old are you that you can’t remember? It was only ten or eleven years ago?

Have people missed the point that it’s not a vaccine passport but rather you either have to have had the vaccine OR a negative test. So no-one is forcing anyone to be vaccinated. If you want to go to a football match for example, you can swab yourself instead.

I think they make sense for mass events & busy indoor events like the theatre. They aren’t something you do everyday so hardly a massive inconvenience. It’ll just be something you need to remember to do on the day & make sure you have test ordered.

Loadsa people have to do it twice weekly for work. I don’t think the rest of us should complain really.

When should it end? Maybe once we see how well the vaccines are holding up. This whole thing for me is death & serious illness. If they remain low & at a level we’ve long accepted with flu and hospitals aren’t struggling with covid patients, then the vaccine has done its job & I think life should resume. But I think we need to be patient & hold on until we can feel confident they are doing just that. In the meantime, regular testing seems to be the obvious answer.

@Bluntness100

I think at this halfway point, there is going to be a lot of understandable self-interest. If you have had the vaccine, then an app to allow you to live more freely sounds fab, but if you haven't had the vaccine then an app to allow others to live more freely than you sounds crap

I think this nails it

If you’ve had the vaccine then you’re going to likely support this, as it means you can live normally and know risks are minimised, so it’s in your interests to support it.

If you are a Covid denier or a vaccine refuser it effectively means you remain limited for another year and may even loose your job, so you’re not going to like it one little bit. So it’s in your personal interests to fight against it.

As over 80 percent of the population is being vaccinated then logic dictates there will be over whelming support for it. There is also going to be an element of “ you chose not to have it, so tough shit, stay home and swivel” going on.

And what about those of us who haven’t had it yet? I’ll have my vaccine as soon as I’m offered it.

And what about those of us who haven’t had it yet? I’ll have my vaccine as soon as I’m offered it.

The news are saying other than the trial events listed it will not be rolled out till the autumn, as it won’t be ready till then, at which point all adults will be vaccinated here, or offered one.

Sorry yes and as the pp said you can also do a negative test, and I think possibly also an antibody one.

I'm not sure where it ends. I support the idea of it in order to get large events and attractions open.

Perhaps once they feel that enough are vaccinated to be sure that inevitable outbreaks of cases do not pose a serious risk to NHS services, then we can stop with the testing.

We are always going to live with covid, but at some point hopefully it will be at a point where it can be dealt with by the NHS like anything else.

Totally opposed to this. It should be voluntary to have the vaccine. Where will it end? How long does it go on?

I think at this halfway point, there is going to be a lot of understandable self-interest. If you have had the vaccine, then an app to allow you to live more freely sounds fab, but if you haven't had the vaccine then an app to allow others to live more freely than you sounds crap

What about those of us who have had Covid. Are most likely immune and don’t want the vaccine because like every other vaccine they have had it has made them extremely ill.

Off for about 6 weeks after the flu vaccine. People convinced me I must have had flu before the jab. The following year again laid up in bed for another month +
Too much of a coincidence.

It's daft! The Goviot and many others have been looking at the possibilities for months. The government has said they are trialling it in different scenarios, discussing it in others. Pubs for example - reported as pubs shouting back NO! We Won't. What actually happened was the industry was consulted and some landlords chose to make statements to newspapers. Those collecting the opinions of landlrds, groups etc reported back to the government that it would prove difficult for all sorts of reasons and it was taken off the table.

What is happening now is more trials, to see if it could work, if it would be cost effective and help the entertainment and sports type industries get back to work. If it works it will be roled ut in some instances. If it doesn't then such venues will remain closed for longer,

What else could be done? Just open up and fuck it?

That'd work!

@Bythemillpond there's talk of being able to get an antibody test which can then be used for the covid passport. Obviously for travel it will be subject to what other countries decide can be used though.

@froggers1

Totally opposed to this. It should be voluntary to have the vaccine. Where will it end? How long does it go on?

Other vaccines are mandatory for certain jobs and travel. This will be on a larger scale but isn't new.

@HolmeH

Have people missed the point that it’s not a vaccine passport but rather you either have to have had the vaccine OR a negative test. So no-one is forcing anyone to be vaccinated. If you want to go to a football match for example, you can swab yourself instead.

I think they make sense for mass events & busy indoor events like the theatre. They aren’t something you do everyday so hardly a massive inconvenience. It’ll just be something you need to remember to do on the day & make sure you have test ordered.

Loadsa people have to do it twice weekly for work. I don’t think the rest of us should complain really.

When should it end? Maybe once we see how well the vaccines are holding up. This whole thing for me is death & serious illness. If they remain low & at a level we’ve long accepted with flu and hospitals aren’t struggling with covid patients, then the vaccine has done its job & I think life should resume. But I think we need to be patient & hold on until we can feel confident they are doing just that. In the meantime, regular testing seems to be the obvious answer.

A vaccine shouldn’t be a free pass. It doesn’t guarantee immunity. If they require tests to enter a venue then everyone should have to be tested.

@froggers1

Totally opposed to this. It should be voluntary to have the vaccine. Where will it end? How long does it go on?

That's why it hasn't been brought in across many areas and why it probably won't be.

BUT for early opening of some venues it is a first step - until something else comes up. With the ongoing research there will be other options eventually.

WHEN/IF they decide to do it they will publish the guidelines, timescale etc They can't now because they are still collecting data, starting to trial CSC options.

As long as the vaccine isn't compulsory, so there is an option of negative COVID test etc, then I would support them in various instances:

International travel - like yellow fever certificates etc, if they are a requirement for a visa then the UK will need to be able to provide them. I would support making them a requirement to travel to the UK probably for as long as the virus is still in wide ciculation globally, possibly cut it down to only travel from certain countries at some point.

Within the UK - well, COVID is a notifiable disease. So if we have got testing sorted, then we should know with reasonable accuracy things like 'cases' and 'deaths with' for ever. So we can define 'wide circulation' and 'causing large numbers of deaths' as being a certain number of cases/deaths per day/week/month, and bring in passport requirements around that.

Eg - once cases reach say 500 cases per day then passports are required for certain indoor settings, once they reach 750 a day they are required for large outdoor settings eg football matches.

I have taken those numbers from the covid dashboard over the June/July/August 2020 period when there was significant mixing (outdoors) but not significant increase of cases (although that was pre Kent variant).