Those of you who don't mind or even support covid-certificates

[lljkk]

(in any context, maybe just for airplane travel or to visit a care home, "covid certificates" = covid passports, could be a negative PCR/LFT or proof of vaccine or exemption to travel or go to the pub or a gig maybe, etc)

What conditions need to be met (in your mind) for the presented covid-certs to be stopped & no longer required? What is the threshold you want to see that would make you think "It's Ok to drop that now." How would you know?

@Bluntness100

And what about those of us who haven’t had it yet? I’ll have my vaccine as soon as I’m offered it.

The news are saying other than the trial events listed it will not be rolled out till the autumn, as it won’t be ready till then, at which point all adults will be vaccinated here, or offered one.

And everything will have opened by then without the need for the passports , so what would be the point? Putting restrictions back on people who have been living without them for weeks/months?

I’d support them until this stops being a pandemic (although I accept it will probably remain a seasonal epidemic). The economy needs something to allow it to open up and the public to be confident enough to go out and return as much to normal as possible.

I do understand the comments by PP about protecting those most at need and now they can potentially go places long before the rest of us. However, some of these places might not still be open by the time everyone is fully vaccinated if we take that route. It’s also the rest of us who are likely to be young enough to be paying this off for the rest of our lives, so why would we want to increase that economic debt?

If the vaccine doesn’t stop you getting the virus then why not test everyone going into an event.
If the only safe ones are those that have a negative result then surely opening events up so the vaccinated but potentially infectious person gets waved through is a recipe for disaster

"Putting restrictions back on people who have been living without them for weeks/months?"

I'm assuming this clip is fake but not sure. If real, then...they've been honest and people still can't see a problem?

twitter.com/ToniaBuxton/status/1377889993331503104

Cant believe this is even being discussed.

Wrong on all levels.

Fuck me.

A vaccine shouldn’t be a free pass. It doesn’t guarantee immunity. If they require tests to enter a venue then everyone should have to be tested.

I completely agree with the principle of this. I'm against covid passports (for vaccines no test + testing no vaccine) because how do we know the vaccinated aren't positive? (As well as all the other reasons discussed on all the various threads).

BUT.... this mass testing doesn't sit well with me either when coming from the single-use plastic angle.

My children's stepmum is encouraging us to take up the twice weekly testing just as we're about to make the change of walking 3 miles each way to the plastic-free refillery for our food shopping, after already cutting back as much as we can... It doesn't sit completely right with me.

But I guess covid is the emergency we can see right now in front of our faces.

Happy for it to be permanent, same as yellow fever

Is yellow fever a thing you have to have?

@Bluntness100, I mentioned that swine flu was a pandemic because people have answered things like "until this stops being a pandemic" or "as long as there is a pandemic". Clearly the status of "pandemic" is not a consistent way to figure out how long covid-free-certifcs need to persist, because swine flu being a pandemic did not lead to disease-free-certificate systems. There needs to be a different threshold than saying "pandemic" or not.

I think your threshold would be .. actually, I don't know. Most of your answers are about whether you support the disease-free-certification, not what threshold you think is the right one to decide that the disease-free-certifs are still acceptable. That's my question, what threshold has to be reached to make disease-free-certifs ok to not have any more.

For those of us with instincts against disease-free-certification, the imposition of those certificates might be easier to stomach if we knew what objective had to be reached to make the certificates no longer required.

Am I being too much of a Vulcan about this, to hope for some logic?

you either have to have had the vaccine OR a negative test.

Leaving aside for one moment the question of fairness when not everyone has been offered the vaccine, the part I don't understand is

The vaccine effectiveness is not 100%, it is expected to be in a range from 60% to 90%.

The tests checking the effectiveness are also not 100%, though do tend towards false positive rather than false negatives.

So...... what happens with the undetected 40% - 10% for whom the vaccine was not effective but of course they have a valid vaccine passport

Will venues allowing entry for only those with vaccine passports assume they are "covid safe" when they might easily not be. The ineffective vaccine rate in any crowd of people could be very different, a few outbreaks would soon discredit the passports and hence even the vaccine.

Fairly sure you only show the yellow fever cert on entry to a country not every time you go to eg the theatre.

ps re yellow fever... I'm willing to wager that most (?all) countries that require YF jab proof for visitors do not require proof of YF exposure or jab of their actual citizens to do ordinary activities.

@Bythemillpond

Is yellow fever a thing you have to have?

If you want to travel to various countries yes

www.nhs.uk/conditions/yellow-fever/vaccination/

It is the countries listed that require it, not the UK

@lljkk

ps re yellow fever... I'm willing to wager that most (?all) countries that require YF jab proof for visitors do not require proof of YF exposure or jab of their actual citizens to do ordinary activities.

its most likely that there is no YF in those countries that request it, hence they dont need it for ordinary activities, but for international travel not to bring it into the country .

It's not the case in the uk where there is Covid in the country

Just on the subject of other vaccines. Surely if we were to go down this route it would become inevitable that certification would be required for all other standard vaccines. If not why not?

I think I can live without going to those countries.

It’s not really about what’s fair is it? It’s about what gets the economy going. Many young people will have more employment opportunities if those that are vaccinated are allowed to do more things even if they are not yet. And it will only be a few months at the most that there will be some people that have not been offered the vaccine so I don’t think it’s that big a deal.
Its not fair that as a family we couldn’t go away with our school age children within the UK whilst they are on their holidays, when next week you are able to when our kids have to be back in school. But I don’t begrudge someone childfree in their 20s being able to get away somewhere next week. Every age group has suffered differently in one way or another this year.

@FlibbertyGiblets

What form would the "passports" take, do we think? Print out? An App? Card like the vaccination one?

On the NHS you can see that you've had the vaccine, date and batch number, etc. It could be linked to that.

I feel so depressed reading this thread. So many in favour of these digital passports because 'I'm alright jack and had the vaccine'

What about those of us that won't/can't have it but can't get a medical exemption? Those of us who have had our lives cancelled for the good of society and now won't get our freedom back because we won't submit to medical treatment we really, really don't want for lots of valid reasons.

I don't think they will be abolished once people accept them. Come on UK - think about this.

I'd support Covid Status proof, via an app (and a paper based system for those without a smartphone)

By covid status I mean evidence of covid vaccinations or a negative PCR within x hours of flying.

I'm not sure how I feel about LFT due to the false negative issue, though once more people have had at least one vaccine this concern would reduce for me,

Certificates to fly /travel are fair enough, had yellow fever ones for years. For within the U.K. it's much trickier and should be dropped ASAP, certainly once daily deaths are in single figures for 3 months despite reopening

As for 'how long' - guess until we are classified as no longer living through a pandemic perhaps. Though will it move to endemic after that - so maybe only applicable for going in and out of those countries with a covid endemic still occurring.

Not all schools are back next week, mine isn't.

@dividedwefall

I feel so depressed reading this thread. So many in favour of these digital passports because 'I'm alright jack and had the vaccine'

What about those of us that won't/can't have it but can't get a medical exemption? Those of us who have had our lives cancelled for the good of society and now won't get our freedom back because we won't submit to medical treatment we really, really don't want for lots of valid reasons.

I don't think they will be abolished once people accept them. Come on UK - think about this.

Why can't you have it? If it's a genuine reason then you could get medical exemption for it surely?

I’ve had the vaccine and am 100% opposed to any form of Covid passport

It’s a completely pointless, expensive waste of everyone’s time.