Covid has just been forgotten about then?

[washthem]

My in-laws are acting like it's all disappeared over night.

Travelling to london, going out for lunches and dinners in people's houses etc.

They're vaccinated now so I suppose they don't mind.

They've all but invited themselves around to ours in a couple of weeks time!

@StealthPolarBear

I totally agree but was answering in theory about how two vaccinated adults meeting could impact on schools

Wait, so you were arguing the toss with me on something we fundamentally agree on? Bit pointless really wasn’t it?

Of course everything can be argued as a risk theoretically. The question is whether that tiny risk is being mitigated with fair and proportionate rules

No because it sounds like you've fundamentally misunderstood that vaccines do not reduce risk to zero. They reduce risk but do not eliminate it.
I'm not picking sides, I'm not a child. I'm arguing on my opinions but also on the facts where they are known.

@Alsohuman so why don’t we wait until all over 50s are vaccinated. Why are people rushing ahead of the guidance.

@StealthPolarBear

No because it sounds like you've fundamentally misunderstood that vaccines do not reduce risk to zero. They reduce risk but do not eliminate it. I'm not picking sides, I'm not a child. I'm arguing on my opinions but also on the facts where they are known.

Then I have not made myself clear. I do not believe in any way that the risk is zero. Just not big enough for the current restrictions to be in any way proportionate to the risks involved

Nothing in life is risk free. Covid is absolutely not going away and will never have a zero risk.
So many replies here though seem to indicate that until the impossible (zero risk) occurs, we all need to be shut away indefinitely, I assumed your comments reflected those views

But you understand that at a population level, vaccinated people mixing will cause rates to rise?
Whether you think that's acceptable or not (I do) is a separate issue.

And your "re-read" comment seemed to strongly suggest you were suggesting there was no risk.

@StealthPolarBear

But you understand that at a population level, vaccinated people mixing will cause rates to rise? Whether you think that's acceptable or not (I do) is a separate issue.

Yes thank you I understand that quite clearly. I like you find that an acceptable risk

But like I said, a poorly worded post eh?

Ok

'Over half the adult population is vaccinated, ffs. Everyone over 50, ie most likely to be hospitalised or die, will be done in less than a fortnight. Talk about bloody mission creep, the NHS is in no danger of being overwhelmed now, there’s absolutely no reason for these crazy restrictions.'

But as they've just said on the press conference look at Chile. Half the population vaccinated but they're having another surge

Caution is needed. So people need to stop with the 'enough is enough', 'project fear' twaddle and just follow the guidelines fgs.

Oooh johnson has just had a dig at khan

[quote ineedaholidaynow]@Alsohuman so why don’t we wait until all over 50s are vaccinated. Why are people rushing ahead of the guidance.[/quote]
Because there’s no need. If you’re between 50 and 60 you have a 0.5% chance of dying.

@SmidgenofaPigeon

Well you could tell your daughter to look into the scientific research as I have. I’m not just having the vaccine because I meet the criteria, I’m having it because I’ve pored over a lot of information and come to the conclusion that it is not unsafe for pregnant women to be vaccinated. In the US pregnant women are routinely being vaccinated against C19. It’s wrong to state that pregnant women CAN’T be vaccinated, which is what you said originally, *@CakeByTheSea*.

Thanks @SmidgeofaPigeon but at her NHS antenatal care provider, the vaccine is not being offered to pregnant women unless they meet the criteria stated by RCOG. She cannot just asked for it , no matter how much reading she has done and she has done a lot (well she could ask but she won’t get it.) Being from a very medical family, she is very aware of the research and the fact that pregnant women were not included in the vaccine trials. You are right to say that there is no proof that it is unsafe for pregnant women but there is no hard data to say it is safe either so she will take the advice of her caregivers and wait until after the baby is born. Again, I am glad for you that you are having the vaccine but the original post on this thread is UK based (am not sure where you are based) and my comment was that to remind people to look out for their pregnant friends, most of whom will remain vulnerable - a message that needs to be got across. It is probably better that people see a pregnant women and assume they might be vulnerable rather than focus on the minority groups of pregnant women who are protected. Stay well, hopefully things are improving.

Are hospitalisations and deaths rising in Chile, or just cases?

Done some googling and can't find anything that looks clear and authoritative. A news report said cases are rising and they expect icu admissions to go up in April.

@StealthPolarBear

Are hospitalisations and deaths rising in Chile, or just cases?

Yes their icus are filling up www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/3/17/chile-second-covid-wave-hits-despite-vaccination-campaign

They have used a different vaccine sinovac, but still it demonstrates that the 'enough is enough 50% vaccinated' is premature. I don't want to stay in lockdown, I'm looking forward to holidays and normal life but I absolutely understand the need for a slow reopening with constant review of data.

Thank you. Scary stuff.

@CakeByTheSeai never said she could simply ask for it, I’m aware that being pregnant doesn’t entitle you to it. I am saying that if she WAS offered it, she COULD have it if she made the decision to. Obviously no one forced me to have it and I wasn’t offered it simply because I’m pregnant. But my point was it’s not true that pregnant women can’t have it. They can, and many have. Most pregnant women obviously just aren’t falling into the relevant age bracket to be invited for it yet, unless they are frontline or have a health condition that makes them higher risk separate to their pregnancy. Some who’ve been invited won’t have it because they don’t have enough data on the effects yet. But you made it sound as if it was simply not possible for pregnant women to be vaccinated in your first post.

PS yes am in the U.K. And absolutely agree that it’s probably better to assume pregnant women won’t have been vaccinated, and as I say I haven’t, yet, but unfortunately I’m not able to behave any differently due to that, I still have to go out to work (with schoolchildren) and use public transport etc.

I had 7 people in my garden yesterday evening, plus me. Four of them are in the same class at school and the other two are our neighbours' children, who have been bouncing on my trampoline and rugby tackling eachother all holidays. Parents are all vaccinated. The rules are an absolute infringement of our fundamental freedoms and I'm not doing it any more. Shoot me now

Because there’s no need. If you’re between 50 and 60 you have a 0.5% chance of dying.

But not 0.5% chance of still catching it and passing it on (by being symptomless.)

The efficacy rate of 1 jab is around 75%. So there is less chance of dying or being very ill, but you can still get it and be a carrier - and infect others.

Very few under-70s have had the 2nd dose so far.

They have used a different vaccine sinovac

Well this is fundamental in fairness.

Chile have vaccinated about 30%, not 50% of their population.

18 million people ish, 9 million doses administered but around 3 million of those are second doses. Cases amongst those who have been vacinated have dropped sharply.

So please stop with the fearmongering. Again.

Some people want restrictions to go on forever. They want total elimination. It will never happen.

Agree. We need to live with this. Despite everything the govt have done wrong, they do seem to be moving along this path - they never talk about zero covid.

'Well this is fundamental in fairness.'

Well of course it is 'fundamental' . I'm not for a minute 'fearmongering' and suggesting it will happen here.

The fact is it is all unknown and just because there is high percentage vaccinated it does not equal we are out of the woods, as demonstrated in Chile.

Hence the slow cautious reopening.