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See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Vaccine passports and mask exemptions

345 replies

salmonskinjerky · 31/03/2021 17:25

The language around the vaccine passport debate has been really shocking - dehumanising, completely unnuanced and very dangerous indeed. It seems like the majority of posters on MN would support vaccine passports for everyday activities and the posters who admit to not being keen on getting the vaccine are called selfish, a danger to others and told that they ought to live as hermits.

I remember when there were a lot of threads about mask exemptions and the overall consensus was that people who felt unable to wear masks for various reasons should be allowed to go about their business without challenge, despite the fact that they posed an additional risk to the health of the people around them. This is in spite of the fact that an unmasked person posed more of a risk to others in the time before anyone had the protection of a vaccine than an unvaccinated person would pose to a person who had been vaccinated. The view that many held was that a mask exempt person should not be questioned about their reasons for not wearing a mask. And that it would be discriminatory to not allow them into indoor public spaces.

I would like to hear from people who make a distinction between people who are mask exempt and people who are unvaccinated for various reasons and why the two should be treated differently.

OP posts:
AcornAutumn · 01/04/2021 15:25

[quote Dowser]If you are really worried about the passports
There’s a link to the petition
It did great at the beginning but has slowed a bit now

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/569957[/quote]
I signed it a while ago

They have "debated" it now though.

Dowser · 01/04/2021 16:13

Yes, it still runs till July but it’s not getting much traffic now.

poppycat10 · 01/04/2021 16:29

Totally agree OP.

And having to carry a vaccine passport everywhere you go (and having to have forced medication to get it) is far more inconvenient than wearing mask for a few minutes while in a shop. The two do not bear comparison at all.

I don't want long covid. I do want the vaccine. But I don't see why I should prove I've had it. Get the vaccine yourself and stop policing other people.

poppycat10 · 01/04/2021 16:30

To minimise this chance I won't be socialising with non vaccinated people, easy as I don't have any anti vaxxers in my family or friends

You do know that a lot of us haven't been given the option of the vaccine yet?

And what about families with children?

poppycat10 · 01/04/2021 16:36

Article here

Ministers are discussing drawing up a list of “essential” places, including hospitals, GP surgeries and supermarkets, where vaccination passports would not be used, as Boris Johnson prepares to announce next week whether they will become a feature of British life.

Covid status certificates, available to those who have been vaccinated, recently tested negative or who have developed antibodies after contracting the virus, are being taken increasingly seriously at the top of government as a way of aiding the unlocking of the economy.

Just over five weeks ago Johnson announced that Michael Gove, the Cabinet Office minister, would lead a review of the issue. While he was not expected to report until mid-June, the prime minister is expected to provide a “high-level direction of travel” update on certificates on Monday. If he says that he sees a role for passports, the Gove review will continue to June, focusing on solving practical difficulties.

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One question being considered is which parts of life should be kept open for those who refuse to take part. Hospitals, GP surgeries and supermarkets are likely to be forbidden from barring people who do not have a status certificate, on the grounds that doing so would be discriminatory. Other locations could include courts and police stations.

The Royal College of GPs warned that Covid passports for pubs could be discriminatory and risk government accessing sensitive medical records.

Those less comfortable with technology could be shut out by a requirement to show an app-based digital Covid certificate, the college says. It also warns ministers against “identifiable central registers” of health records, saying there must be a clear guarantee that data will be used only to allow people to prove their own status.

Martin Marshall, head of the college, has written to Gove expressing concern about how the scheme would work, as well as warning that it must not lead to extra paperwork for doctors struggling to recover from the pandemic.

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“The college is not necessarily opposed to the introduction of some sort of opt-in proof of vaccination document to allow for international travel. Our concern about introducing certification for domestic use is that this risks negatively impacting on some patient groups more than others and by doing so widening existing inequalities, including health inequalities, in society.”

He added: “Alternative proof of vaccination must be available for those who don’t have smartphones or are simply less tech-savvy.”

Last night Sir Keir Starmer said that Covid passports for everyday activities went against the “British instinct”.

The Labour leader told The Daily Telegraph that while the issue was extremely difficult, “my instinct is that . . . [if] we get the virus properly under control, the death rates are near zero, hospital admissions very, very low, that the British instinct in those circumstances will be against vaccine passports”. He added that he was also against leaving it up to commerce. “I think that this idea that we sort of outsource this to individual landlords is just wrong in principle.”

Starmer’s remarks increase the possibility that the government would struggle to get the proposal through, especially as the Liberal Democrats and many Tory rebels are against it.

poppycat10 · 01/04/2021 16:37

Starmer’s remarks increase the possibility that the government would struggle to get the proposal through, especially as the Liberal Democrats and many Tory rebels are against it

Lets hope!

AcornAutumn · 01/04/2021 16:41

So called Tory rebels are very few.

reformedcharacters · 01/04/2021 16:44

I’m willing to vote for any party that stands up against this as are many others I know.

You only need to watch the debate of this to know that the government have their fingers in their ears.

MercyBooth · 01/04/2021 17:00

So i would have to have it for the hairdressers then.

covetingthepreciousthings · 01/04/2021 17:08

Whose going to be 'policing' this? Probably the minimum wage workers in hospitality etc?!

I really hope this isn't going to be brought in, I just don't see how it would work.

I see supermarkets are amongst the only exclusions... I work in non essential retail, I'm not paid enough to deal with the hassle of asking people to show a vaccine passports before entering the store.

reformedcharacters · 01/04/2021 17:14

So to recap:

  1. The government have shown you how miserable life is in extended lockdown
  2. The government is now sentencing you to life in permanent lockdown unless you give up your right to bodily autonomy, take a vaccine and comply with their digital passports.

Sounds legit.

It’s not Ebola or the plague, there’s far more to this.

Heathermary1995 · 01/04/2021 17:25

If people who don't take the vaccine are excluded from society, why should they continue to pay taxes from a society they are excluded from? I'd imagine to access benefits there will be a covid app needed as well as public transport etc so by all but name it's mandatory unless people just live like a hermit going nowhere doing nothing.

MercyBooth · 01/04/2021 17:29

@reformedcharacters This isnt about a virus any more

reformedcharacters · 01/04/2021 17:32

MercyBooth

I would have refused to listen to anybody that said this a year ago, but now I think people must be blind not to see it.

Kamr123 · 01/04/2021 17:37

@CoffeeWithCheese

I'm mask exempt for a range of reasons I'm not prepared to go into on here - it's noted on my medical records and it's not for a want of trying - I have spent probably well over £100 on trying different styles and visors and whatever else, and I've made myself very very ill trying to acclimatise. I've been abused on here, told I'm killing grannies, made to feel utterly dehumanised. I've been abused on the rare occasions I've gone into a physical premises where masking is required - despite me desperately trying to stay away from anyone when in there. I've been shunned at the school gate when the school tried to enforce masks on the public footpath outside the school. The people I've had actual sympathy from have been the retail staff seeing me desperately trying to fight the waves of terror from having it on my face and telling me to take the bloody thing off and stop trying to put myself through it and brute force it through.

Incidentally I've had the vaccine first dose and I'm due the second in a week or so's time. I'm pro-vaccine generally but I am INCREDIBLY more pro-bodily autonomy and the importance of people with capacity having the freedom to make their own decisions about their body - even if they're not the decisions I personally feel are "right". I'm incredibly concerned about the route we are going down in terms of coercion and the dismantling of the principle of informed consent. It's the toxicity of the dialogue that's begun to emerge and the bullying and threats of the state essentially forcing people into having the jab in order to be allowed to be a functional member of society that is deterring me to the point I'm considering cancelling the second jab appointment in protest at what is going on.

Might seem just a little bit of paper and an app on your phone now - but once the state has crossed the line once to dictate what they can do to your body, that makes it a hell of a lot easier to cross that line again and again - I'm incredibly concerned about where that has the potential to lead.

Nicely explained and balanced view.

There are those that believe that choice has to be removed for those that don't fall in line -remove them from society - is what I am reading here in this thread.

And yet, they fail to see that if choice is removed now, no one has a choice later. It will not stop with passports.

dividedwefall · 01/04/2021 17:39

The worst thing is they have been planning this all along. They have lied about it on live TV and yet people hang on every other word they say with regards to this virus, lock downs and death numbers. People have been manipulated to an astonishing degree and are being primed to turn on the unvaccinated. You see it often on this board and soon you will see it out in real life. It's all so scary and truly like living in a conspiracy theory.

By equating mask refusers with the vaccine hesitant and vaccine resistant you are doing their bidding. You've been led through the narrative to this point and playing your part beautifully. Please everyone, those who want to be vaccinated and those who don't, but particularly the former, think of the future and where this will lead if you don't stand up now and say this is not acceptable.

flourella · 01/04/2021 17:45

I wonder what 'body autonomy' people -those that think fears and phobias are sufficient reason for not being vaccinated or wearing a mask would have thought during the blitz of people said they were not blacking out their windows. Because they felt trapped and claustrophobic

I can't wear a face covering and I won't be able to have the vaccine due to my mental health problems, but it's more paranoid delusions and psychosis than the apparently easily dismissible "fears and phobias". Not PTSD-related and nothing to do with conspiracy theories about this situation in particular either. I expect people like me would have been in asylums during the blitz with no freedoms at all, not just a lack of "body autonomy" or opportunity to argue the toss about whether or not windows should be blacked out. Perhaps that's preferable to some(!)

I'm really worried now about vaccine passports being brought in; my life is already very limited but if shops and cinemas start requiring customers to prove they've been vaccinated, things will get even more miserable for me. What conditions would have to met for them to no longer be deemed necessary, or would it just become the new way of doing things, permanently?!

reformedcharacters · 01/04/2021 17:49

Those that are pleading for these and rubbing their hands at the thought of the ‘special’ protection they are being afforded are incredibly naive, this government showed exactly what they thought of the ‘weak’ in society at the outset of the pandemic by sending countless infected people into care homes causing a catastrophic rate of death amongst the elderly and telling you to your faces they wanted to ‘squash the sombrero’ or I other words ‘we don’t want you all dying at once as the decimated NHS won’t be able to fit you all in.

Once this government have their way you will see their true colours once again.

MercyBooth · 01/04/2021 18:05

YY @reformedcharacters Here is another example They are happy to use yes use long Covid sufferers as a tool to emotionally blackmail and bully others now but wait until those long Covid sufferers apply for PIP and other disability benefits, then all of a sudden it will suddenly become not as serious and they will be told it is all in their minds like those with ME etc were before them.

dividedwefall · 01/04/2021 18:14

@MercyBooth indeed. It seems they will say and do anything to force people down the one way path they have prearranged for us.

Remember when the scientists inadvertently said children were fine but then they wanted to close the schools. Suddenly Kawasaki disease is putting kids in hospital, and the BBC ran the story of a nurse saying ICU was overwhelmed with children!

And oh my 'Long Covid' has become the counterargument to literally everything that can't be covered by 'new variants'.

reformedcharacters · 01/04/2021 18:23

dividedwefall

BBC complaint upheld over the scaremongering story. Damage done.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9406159/amp/BBC-complaint-upheld-Adrian-Chiles-failed-debunk-hospital-matrons-Covid-claim.html

Northernsoulgirl45 · 01/04/2021 19:17

I have no issue with people who are truly exempt from wearing a mask and I have no issue with people who decide the vaccine isn't for them.
The people I have issue with are people who don't wear a mask but can and encourage others to do the same. Also people who try and talk people out of vaccination. Hint they are generally the same subset of people.

twinklystar23 · 01/04/2021 21:22

I'm not clinically vulnerable but have a LTC which is an autoimmune illness. It is not fully understood by clinicians why the body attacks it's own cells as though they were foreign. So is it understandable my concerns that I do not want to being another unknown into that equation? My DH has had the jab, but I am choosing to delay. Is that selfish? It's one thing wearing masks etc, but choosing a medical intervention is a choice so the government and up-their-arses individuals can f.o. I am for the most a very public aware person, but their comes a balance that this is not at the expense of individual choice and liberty. A balance has to be struck, we are sentient beings and I fully resent the bullying and gas lighting behaviour which makes me more inclined to resist those intentions to comply.

AcornAutumn · 01/04/2021 22:35

@reformedcharacters

MercyBooth

I would have refused to listen to anybody that said this a year ago, but now I think people must be blind not to see it.

Would you? I was just chatting with a friend. She thought I was wrong to say this on the day furlough was announced but about a week later she realised it too.

I tend to think that I can't persuade anyone now but she thinks more people are waking up.

reformedcharacters · 01/04/2021 22:51

AcornAutumn

I supported the first lockdown as we didn’t know what we were dealing with, I even defended the government on here, but as I’ve watched the blatant lies gaslighting and suppression of scientific debate over the past year it has become clear there was an agenda.

As soon as I knew vaccine passports were being considered that changed my view completely as I was very aware of how dangerous they are.

More people are waking up to it.