Vaccine passports and mask exemptions

[salmonskinjerky]

The language around the vaccine passport debate has been really shocking - dehumanising, completely unnuanced and very dangerous indeed. It seems like the majority of posters on MN would support vaccine passports for everyday activities and the posters who admit to not being keen on getting the vaccine are called selfish, a danger to others and told that they ought to live as hermits.

I remember when there were a lot of threads about mask exemptions and the overall consensus was that people who felt unable to wear masks for various reasons should be allowed to go about their business without challenge, despite the fact that they posed an additional risk to the health of the people around them. This is in spite of the fact that an unmasked person posed more of a risk to others in the time before anyone had the protection of a vaccine than an unvaccinated person would pose to a person who had been vaccinated. The view that many held was that a mask exempt person should not be questioned about their reasons for not wearing a mask. And that it would be discriminatory to not allow them into indoor public spaces.

I would like to hear from people who make a distinction between people who are mask exempt and people who are unvaccinated for various reasons and why the two should be treated differently.

Same as I'd be happy for the elderly to go on holiday now.

How can you make an argument that low risk people can do whatever they want when for an entire year we have had laws in place stopping low risk people doing what they want?

Where is the sense in this?

Low risk and high risk people in lockdown for a year.

Then some high risk people join the low risk group. More and more as they work down through the population.

So now (in your opinion) low risk people can come out of lockdown and travel and presumably go to shops and pubs etc - but only the low risk people who were previously high risk, NOT the low risk people who have always been low risk.

What is the justification for that? Either it is safe for low risk people to enter pubs, or it isn't.

@notrub
Would you let a convicted (but time-served) paedophile teach?
Would you let an alcoholic drive a bus?
Would you let a convicted fraudster run a bank?

Would you let a company that set a record for the largest health care fraud settlement to create a vaccine?
OR
Would you rather have that vaccine created by a company that had been fined for illegally promoting anti-psychotics?

I stopped reading the thread at holding down 5 year olds for the jab

I probably should have worded better it wasnt a vax incident.
But realistically anyway frequently there is stuff kids have to do, antibiotics/ sun tan lotion etc. And some kids just resist. The kid isnt 5 now but i would hold them down as it's no different to many other things they dont want to do. Sometimes they can be convinced. But dithering is actually the worst and a matter of fact approach the nurse takes works better for my dc. You have to hold onto a toddlers arms and legs for mmr.

Also dc2 had cp vax and that was much better than cp as at that point they were a picker, i cant imagine what cp would have ended hp like but probably infected.

@GeorgiaMelissa

I hadn't heard that about AstraZeneca, its very concerning. I'm sure someone will be along in a minute to tell me why I'm an idiot for considering it legitimately worrying though.

[quote salmonskinjerky]@GeorgiaMelissa

I hadn't heard that about AstraZeneca, its very concerning. I'm sure someone will be along in a minute to tell me why I'm an idiot for considering it legitimately worrying though.[/quote]
Here’s a news article about it:

It is from 18 years ago.

www.nytimes.com/2003/06/21/business/astrazeneca-pleads-guilty-in-cancer-medicine-scheme.html

And also this 2010:

www.bmj.com/content/340/bmj.c2380

@reformedcharacters

I was referring to the Seroquel controversy, but that's worrying too. The medical establishment and its assurances are not infallible.

yup that one

[quote GeorgiaMelissa]@notrub
Would you let a convicted (but time-served) paedophile teach?
Would you let an alcoholic drive a bus?
Would you let a convicted fraudster run a bank?

Would you let a company that set a record for the largest health care fraud settlement to create a vaccine?
OR
Would you rather have that vaccine created by a company that had been fined for illegally promoting anti-psychotics?[/quote]
I remember watching a documentary about this, not many people know about the Bextra scandal or the Sanofi Dengue scandal www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2019/05/03/719037789/botched-vaccine-launch-has-deadly-repercussions?t=1617233254622

@PelvicFloorTrauma totally agree with you. They are ridiculous with their views. Go and live under the rock if you are that scared to face the word unvaccinated.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_pharmaceutical_settlements

fingers crossed the link works...

I wonder what 'body autonomy' people -those that think fears and phobias are sufficient reason for not being vaccinated or wearing a mask would have thought during the blitz of people said they were not blacking out their windows. Because they felt trapped and claustrophobic

@withmycoffee

I wonder what 'body autonomy' people -those that think fears and phobias are sufficient reason for not being vaccinated or wearing a mask would have thought during the blitz of people said they were not blacking out their windows. Because they felt trapped and claustrophobic

Can’t argue with the logic of closed curtains and drug’s being administered intravenously as they’re both obviously the same...

@withmycoffee

I wonder what 'body autonomy' people -those that think fears and phobias are sufficient reason for not being vaccinated or wearing a mask would have thought during the blitz of people said they were not blacking out their windows. Because they felt trapped and claustrophobic

You can't really compare the danger of bombing with covid - and it's not my personal view, but statistics. However, it's quite interesting that even during blitz some people didn't want to wear mask because of - you guessed - claustrophobia.

We each had to carry a gas mask in those days, kept in a neat little cardboard box inside a protective case and worn with a strap over the shoulder. I hated mine and would rather have suffered a gas attack, had it come, than wear the thing, which gave me a feeling of claustrophobia.

www.bbc.co.uk/history/ww2peopleswar/stories/75/a3253475.shtml

My objection to those not wearing a mask or other face covering was a belief that the vast majority could wear one for a short period of time if of the right material and size, and so most claiming exemptions were not genuine. Based in part with the level of wearing of face coverings when in Germany in September.

My opinion on vaccine passports is that they will be needed for travel on some airlines and to certain countries, so let's get on and have them available to those who want them. I am not in favour of them for day to day life in this country, except perhaps for some medical situations.

@CuthbertDibbleandGrubb

My objection to those not wearing a mask or other face covering was a belief that the vast majority could wear one for a short period of time if of the right material and size, and so most claiming exemptions were not genuine. Based in part with the level of wearing of face coverings when in Germany in September.

My opinion on vaccine passports is that they will be needed for travel on some airlines and to certain countries, so let's get on and have them available to those who want them. I am not in favour of them for day to day life in this country, except perhaps for some medical situations.

The Times is reporting that there will be an announcement on Monday and that exemptions will likely only be hospitals and supermarkets.

Welcome to totalitarian UK.

@withmycoffee

I wonder what 'body autonomy' people -those that think fears and phobias are sufficient reason for not being vaccinated or wearing a mask would have thought during the blitz of people said they were not blacking out their windows. Because they felt trapped and claustrophobic

Maybe they would have got some support from a neighbour or family.

But yeah, carry on with these ridiculous comparisons (that do nothing to help anyone whatsoever). Another stamp for my Bingo card.

reformedcharacters

Do you know if anything has been said about public transport? Thank you.

AcornAutumn

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/gps-raise-concerns-over-covid-passport-scheme-7n0pn7pw7

Unfortunately it’s behind a paywall.

@reformedcharacters

AcornAutumn

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/gps-raise-concerns-over-covid-passport-scheme-7n0pn7pw7

Unfortunately it’s behind a paywall.

I can't read it but thanks anyway

Also here:

metro.co.uk/2021/04/01/shops-hospitals-and-gps-to-be-exempt-from-vaccine-passport-scheme-14342169/

I’ve suddenly had an awful bout of dermatitis.
Something I’ve rarely suffered with and it’s been excruciating . It’s been two months and count
I’ve heard about the side effects of rashes that people have had with the vaccine and I just couldn’t bring myself to go there

Here’s a very extreme case ,
www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-9420587/Virginia-mans-skin-peeled-J-J-Covid-vaccine.html

Thanks reformed

In my optimistic moments, I think I'll be dead before they can sort it for the Tube!

If you are really worried about the passports
There’s a link to the petition
It did great at the beginning but has slowed a bit now

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/569957