Vaccine passports and mask exemptions

[salmonskinjerky]

The language around the vaccine passport debate has been really shocking - dehumanising, completely unnuanced and very dangerous indeed. It seems like the majority of posters on MN would support vaccine passports for everyday activities and the posters who admit to not being keen on getting the vaccine are called selfish, a danger to others and told that they ought to live as hermits.

I remember when there were a lot of threads about mask exemptions and the overall consensus was that people who felt unable to wear masks for various reasons should be allowed to go about their business without challenge, despite the fact that they posed an additional risk to the health of the people around them. This is in spite of the fact that an unmasked person posed more of a risk to others in the time before anyone had the protection of a vaccine than an unvaccinated person would pose to a person who had been vaccinated. The view that many held was that a mask exempt person should not be questioned about their reasons for not wearing a mask. And that it would be discriminatory to not allow them into indoor public spaces.

I would like to hear from people who make a distinction between people who are mask exempt and people who are unvaccinated for various reasons and why the two should be treated differently.

I'm 100% convinced this would have been their plan from the get go.

"Only GP surgeries and supermarkets"

Let the public froth

"Everything except stadiums and nightclubs"

Oh okay that's not so bad then. That's good news. We should be grateful it's not hospitality.

It feels psychologically abusive. Because it's really not good news, and we really shouldn't be grateful. It's still creating a two-tier society. We're just being manipulated into acceptance because it could be worse.

It's also picking off opposition in a way that feels a lot like that "first they came for X and I didn't speak up" type of thing. I don't even go to pubs, so I really wasn't bothered about them personally, but I use coffee shops and clothes shops. So now I'm alright, Jack. But maybe a lot of younger people like (and have a right to!!) nightclubs, football stadiums etc, and now a whole lot of people aren't going to be marching in the streets or opposing this because they have their restaurants / shops / coffee / pub etc.

I think I'm more angry now than I was before 🙃

The vaccine passport list apparently leaked to the papers. Need one for the cinema but not to go out for a meal? Cinemas were open last summer. Just all makes no sense. Don't know how to feel.

I think I'm more angry now than I was before

Me too. The tactics show they will stop at nothing.

@Beebityboo

The vaccine passport list apparently leaked to the papers. Need one for the cinema but not to go out for a meal? Cinemas were open last summer. Just all makes no sense. Don't know how to feel.

And they will be open until the last 18 year old walks out a vaccination centre with a passport. Until then, fair game. It makes no sense.

Where's everyone seeing this? Can't see anything on most news sites other than the story that passports would be temporary

@winched

I'm 100% convinced this would have been their plan from the get go.

"Only GP surgeries and supermarkets"

Let the public froth

"Everything except stadiums and nightclubs"

Oh okay that's not so bad then. That's good news. We should be grateful it's not hospitality.

It feels psychologically abusive. Because it's really not good news, and we really shouldn't be grateful. It's still creating a two-tier society. We're just being manipulated into acceptance because it could be worse.

It's also picking off opposition in a way that feels a lot like that "first they came for X and I didn't speak up" type of thing. I don't even go to pubs, so I really wasn't bothered about them personally, but I use coffee shops and clothes shops. So now I'm alright, Jack. But maybe a lot of younger people like (and have a right to!!) nightclubs, football stadiums etc, and now a whole lot of people aren't going to be marching in the streets or opposing this because they have their restaurants / shops / coffee / pub etc.

I think I'm more angry now than I was before 🙃

Right there with you, soooo angry and suspicious. Hopefully youngsters won't fall for it. Hold the line!

[quote dividedwefall]Michael Gove is asking the public (Telegraph readers) to give him some feedback on the covid passport idea. The comments are brilliant

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/04/03/time-discussion-covid-certification/[/quote]
200 comments mostly against, in 50 minutes. Not quite going to plan. Don't know why he didn't get some SPADS to log on and post positive comments 😅 🙃

@BelleHathor

Except trying to convince youngsters has already been thought about.. back in Dec 2020.

"Highlight popular “normal life” activities that young people can engage in again once vaccinated – socialising, sports and exercise,
work, lectures, events, etc"

and...

“The more young people vaccinated, the safer it will be and the less likely will be future lockdowns.”
“If you want to be able to do what you want, then having the vaccine is the fastest and safest way to achieving this.”

From this public document about convincing people to take the vaccine..
www.local.gov.uk/sites/default/files/documents/Vaccination%20do%20and%20donts%20by%20audience%20cohorts.pdf?fbclid=IwAR0M_943SCaJw_asjvSdX-RqBcNlxYXB8tBLTIUifErXUT3rPZ9AQId5ba4

[quote XenoBitch]@BelleHathor

Except trying to convince youngsters has already been thought about.. back in Dec 2020.

"Highlight popular “normal life” activities that young people can engage in again once vaccinated – socialising, sports and exercise,
work, lectures, events, etc"

and...

“The more young people vaccinated, the safer it will be and the less likely will be future lockdowns.”
“If you want to be able to do what you want, then having the vaccine is the fastest and safest way to achieving this.”

From this public document about convincing people to take the vaccine..
www.local.gov.uk/sites/default/files/documents/Vaccination%20do%20and%20donts%20by%20audience%20cohorts.pdf?fbclid=IwAR0M_943SCaJw_asjvSdX-RqBcNlxYXB8tBLTIUifErXUT3rPZ9AQId5ba4[/quote]
The behavioural experts have planned it so well, I am holding out hope that the rebellious nature of youth will play out fingers crossed 🤞

Speaking of youth.

twitter.com/tomhfh/status/1378045954868264961?s=20

Tom Harwood
@tomhfh
·
Apr 2
Replying to
@tomhfh
Hordes of people drinking drinking with chants ‘open the pubs’ I’m told.
Tom Harwood
@tomhfh
·
Apr 2
Griff from Cardiff who is attending the event explained it by saying: “Drakeford shuts the pubs...we get pissed at his house”
Tom Harwood
@tomhfh
·
Apr 2
The event is still going on despite police turning up. I’m told at least one chant of “we pay for your hats” broke out when the police arrived.

www.theguardian.com/world/2021/apr/03/boris-johnson-to-give-go-ahead-for-trials-of-covid-passports?utm_term=Autofeed&CMP=twt_b-gdnnews&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1617486119
Football cup finals, the World Snooker Championship, a comedy club and a cinema will be used to test vaccine passports over the next few weeks, as the government unveils its route out of lockdown.

The pilot venues will be unveiled on Monday by the prime minister, Boris Johnson, with the NHS drawing up a system that will allow people to use an app or a paper certificate to gain access to major events and reduce social distancing measures

@dividedwefall

I wonder if the roll out to hospitality wasn't actually going to happen straight away, but they leaked it as such to get people going crazy over it. Then they 'concede' that they will leave hospitality alone so it looks like we won and accept the 'just big events then'.

We've talked about the psychological abuse we've been subjected to all year. Maybe this is just a continuation of the same.

Sadly I think this is it. Like you I was over the moon for the first few mins, then realized it was probably always the plan. Should be catching onto it more quickly by now 🙄 It's also a way to undermine the "frothers" as overreacting, because now it's "only" affecting pubs and clubs.

The whole concept is stupid. As of today, two vaccinated households can't mix indoors because govt insist it's not 100% safe - but 1000s (including the previously vulnerable!) could soon do so in a club, simply because they have the magical "passport".

Meanwhile, young healthy people, who've already lost out on a year for the benefit of others, could continue to be excluded from normal life for decling a new jab they have NEVER needed because they have NEVER been vulnerable. The mind boggles, the heart sinks - but glad to see some sense on this thread.

*affecting EVENTS and clubs, that should say 🤦🏻‍♀️

@dividedwefall

I wonder if the roll out to hospitality wasn't actually going to happen straight away, but they leaked it as such to get people going crazy over it. Then they 'concede' that they will leave hospitality alone so it looks like we won and accept the 'just big events then'.

We've talked about the psychological abuse we've been subjected to all year. Maybe this is just a continuation of the same.

I think this. It's happened time and time again during the pandemic. Not just Westminster either, Scottish government seem to decide policy this way too.

Already seen it on this thread where people are relieved that it's not as bad as they first thought. Not that it shouldn't be happening at all or worried, in a similar way to face coverings, where there will be a gradual creep to more and more places requiring it.

But what about those people who work at Events and clubs. Are they supposed to be vaccinated as well because if they are then there will have to find a lot of older people running these things events and clubs.

Dc have been booked on work for the next few weeks but won’t have been offered the vaccination. It is usually a younger persons type of work so where will they staff these events?

So will the vaccine passport be in place as soon as these places reopen? As I’m a healthy young person that hasn’t received a vaccine, I know I’m the lowest priority, so am I just excluded from society until I’m offered it?

@mooonstone

So will the vaccine passport be in place as soon as these places reopen? As I’m a healthy young person that hasn’t received a vaccine, I know I’m the lowest priority, so am I just excluded from society until I’m offered it?

Looks like the plan is to offer all by July and until then it will likely be LFT to allow people to participate/work.

Once all have been offered there will potentially be no options offered unless medically exempt.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/covid-vaccine-millennials-single-shot-johnson-johnson-uk-b927726.html%3famp

That NHS document has made me so angry! How dare they manipulate and guilt trip young people like that!

Sounds like we will be on UC for a long while to come.

That document was an interesting read. How are young people the most susceptible to conspiracy theories? It wasn’t people in their 20s spreading 5G=COVID on WhatsApp and Facebook then burning down phone mists. Fairly patronising and tone deaf

Thank you @reformedcharacters

I don't believe that they can or will do away with testing as an alternative as that's their get-out clause for why the system isn't descriminatory, as you still have a "choice" as to whether or not you take the vaccine.

@MaxNormal

I don't believe that they can or will do away with testing as an alternative as that's their get-out clause for why the system isn't descriminatory, as you still have a "choice" as to whether or not you take the vaccine.

I hope you’re right but they don’t seem to care what they’re doing at the moment, and they don’t seem to be facing repercussions for anything.

For those who were angered or shockked by the NHS doc detailing how to convince young people to accept the vaccine, that was only one page of a larger doc that detailed the tactics to use against a bunch of different societal groups. The full PDF doc can be diwnloaded here;

www.local.gov.uk/sites/default/files/documents/Vaccination%20do%20and%20donts%20by%20audience%20cohorts.pdf

I'm not sure how to make it a clickable link so apologies if you have to copy/paste it.

Also, this feels like a pretty relevant doc as well- it's the European Commission's 'Roadmap on Vaccination'. It's a table showing actions on one side, then for each action, the timelines and deliverables.

What I find most interesting is that it was set out in 2018, with various stages culminating in 'Commission proposal for a common vaccination card/passport for EU citizens', scheduled for 2022. But if you take a few minutes to read some of the steps and specific actions, it's pretty horrifying. And easy to see that everything is right on track thus far.

I realise that the UK is no longer in the EU, but you can look and decide for yourself if you've seen the same steps happening over there. Bear in mind that the USA and China are also in the process of implementing them, so as far as I can tell this is a pretty international thing.

And I just want to specify that I'm not saying the Covid pandemic was engineered to enable this vaccine passport timeline to succeed- but boy has it been convenient and useful.

PDF link here;

ec.europa.eu/health/sites/health/files/vaccination/docs/2019-2022_roadmap_en.pdf

@reformedcharacters I share all of your worries unfortunately, and we've already witnessed lies and u-turns aplenty