Can we please stop saying the vaccine does not reduce transmission?

[Frequentflier]

It does. Plenty of evidence now out which everyone can find for themselves. edition.cnn.com/2021/03/29/health/pfizer-and-moderna-covid-19-vaccines-work-wellness/index.html

It is up to you to not take the vaccine if you don't want to. But please stop dressing it up as an unselfish choice if you have no conditions that stop you from taking it.

I find it interesting how not taking a vaccine is considered a 'selfish' choice, when shutting down the entire economy, forcing people out of work, denying children education, creating a budget deficit that will haunt our children for their entire lives, destroying careers and livelihoods in a way that massively impacts younger people, ie the people in the least amount of danger from covid, is considered - what - unselfish?

It is unbelievable to me that people are expected to sacrifice and sacrifice and sacrifice to extent of taking a medication that they personally don't need and may have unknown side effects that have long term health consequences, and people are genuinely calling them selfish for not wanting to do that.

What the fuck is wrong with people???

@TheDailyCarbunkle

I find it interesting how not taking a vaccine is considered a 'selfish' choice, when shutting down the entire economy, forcing people out of work, denying children education, creating a budget deficit that will haunt our children for their entire lives, destroying careers and livelihoods in a way that massively impacts younger people, ie the people in the least amount of danger from covid, is considered - what - unselfish?

It is unbelievable to me that people are expected to sacrifice and sacrifice and sacrifice to extent of taking a medication that they personally don't need and may have unknown side effects that have long term health consequences, and people are genuinely calling them selfish for not wanting to do that.

What the fuck is wrong with people???

This

I honestly can't tell if people are posting in bad faith when they say that vaccines don't reduce transmission or if they genuinely believe it to be the case?

@TheDailyCarbunkle

I find it interesting how not taking a vaccine is considered a 'selfish' choice, when shutting down the entire economy, forcing people out of work, denying children education, creating a budget deficit that will haunt our children for their entire lives, destroying careers and livelihoods in a way that massively impacts younger people, ie the people in the least amount of danger from covid, is considered - what - unselfish?

It is unbelievable to me that people are expected to sacrifice and sacrifice and sacrifice to extent of taking a medication that they personally don't need and may have unknown side effects that have long term health consequences, and people are genuinely calling them selfish for not wanting to do that.

What the fuck is wrong with people???

This ^^^

I agree that the vaccine reduces transmission, but that doesn't mean that we can force or bully people into medical treatment they don't want.

Vaccine refusal based on misinformation is very concerning, but we must not go down the road of attacking individuals.

Many people who have taken the vaccine are selfish in other ways. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone and all that.

I dont follow the reasoning above.

If people are vaccinated, them there will be less spread and less pressure on the nhs so then there will be benefits for the economy, childrens education etc.

Seems crazy not to do the former if you want the latter. And even more crazy to argue against vaccines when you want economy to open up/kids etc!

Anything that can get covid down will help the economy/schools/life return will be worth it.

Taken from the gov.U.K. Website (my bold):

“ Even if you have been vaccinated, don't forget the symptoms of COVID-19 and have a plan of what to do if you need to self-isolate, whether you develop symptoms, have a positive test or are notified that you are a contact of someone with COVID-19. If you are instructed to self-isolate you must do so because there is still a risk that you might spread infection to others, even if you have been vaccinated and feel entirely well yourself.. “

@TheDailyCarbunkle

I find it interesting how not taking a vaccine is considered a 'selfish' choice, when shutting down the entire economy, forcing people out of work, denying children education, creating a budget deficit that will haunt our children for their entire lives, destroying careers and livelihoods in a way that massively impacts younger people, ie the people in the least amount of danger from covid, is considered - what - unselfish?

It is unbelievable to me that people are expected to sacrifice and sacrifice and sacrifice to extent of taking a medication that they personally don't need and may have unknown side effects that have long term health consequences, and people are genuinely calling them selfish for not wanting to do that.

What the fuck is wrong with people???

Spot on.

there is still a risk that you might spread infection to others, even if you have been vaccinated and feel entirely well yourself..

But that risk is reduced.

I agree with you @frequentflier. Regardless of all the other sacrifices we have all made, (and I lost my job as a result of lockdown so I don't underestimate them), we have to deal with the situation as it is now.

To avoid another wave next winter, we have to achieve - or get close to - herd immunity in the adult population. The vaccine helps by preventing serious disease AND by reducing transmission. So yes I think there is a social responsibility for those who can have the vaccine safely, to do so. Some people are scared or taken in by anti-vax nonsense but the more who get vaccinated, the safer we all will be.

We’re not really engaging with the OP’s main point though.

OP I strongly recommend you start this thread again leaving out any derivative of the S Word which is a distraction.

Vaccines don't reduce the risk to zero though, and people struggle with risk, assuming it's either 100% or 0%

True SPB, but way too many people are still arguing as if it were a fact that the vaccine has no effect at all on transmission.

No idea but someone with both jabs got covid - got into car with someone with one jab, she got covid and passed it on to husband and kids - she was the most poorly out of al.

The OP’s link does not state transmission is completely reduced and no evidence yet has been put forward that it stops transmission so why would people stop discussing it just because some people don’t want them to?

The vaccine reduces transmission, which means schools and businesses are more likely to be open. People who could complain bitterly about lockdown but refuse the vaccine (excluding people who can't have it obviously) don't make sense to me.

It’s not about number of cases it’s about those who need hospital treatment. The most at risk groups have now been offered the vaccine and as the evidence suggests it offers almost certain protection from serious illness hospitals are extremely unlikely to be overwhelmed by those in low risk groups.

@SavingsQuestions

I dont follow the reasoning above.

If people are vaccinated, them there will be less spread and less pressure on the nhs so then there will be benefits for the economy, childrens education etc.

Seems crazy not to do the former if you want the latter. And even more crazy to argue against vaccines when you want economy to open up/kids etc!

Anything that can get covid down will help the economy/schools/life return will be worth it.

I agree. It appears that people are quick to complain how they have suffered as a result of the pandemic and lockdowns, but aren’t willing to do something like have the vaccine to help us out of this situation and get us closer to a more normal life. They want someone else to do it for them.

The vaccines don't stop transition, but there seems to be clear evidence that they do reduce transmission.

Nobody is being forced to have the vaccine, it's an individual choice. However, if lots of people choose not to have it, it's likely that the restrictions will remain in place for longer.

@Manteo

The vaccine reduces transmission, which means schools and businesses are more likely to be open. People who could complain bitterly about lockdown but refuse the vaccine (excluding people who can't have it obviously) don't make sense to me.

Exactly this

Nothing is ever 100%

No vaccine will stop transmission completely
No vaccine will stop infections or serious illness or hospital admission completely 100% but it will substantially reduce the chances of these things happening

So when people say
The vaccine prevents serious illness
Or hospital admission
Or spread
They mean to a large degree but not 100%

So we can now accurately say 'the vaccine reduces transmission' and it can be argued that it is a reason to have it. You might not agree that it is a good enough reason for you personally but you cannot argue that preventing transmission isn't something the vaccine does because that would be wrong

It’s not about number of cases it’s about those who need hospital treatment. The most at risk groups have now been offered the vaccine and as the evidence suggests it offers almost certain protection from serious illness hospitals are extremely unlikely to be overwhelmed by those in low risk groups.

That presumes that the most vulnerable are actually accepting the vaccine, which isn't always the case.

Also, if the virus is allowed to spread unchecked amongst the less vulnerable, we increase the risk of variants from which the vulnerable may not be protected by the existing vaccines. This means that a low take-up of the vaccine is likely to result in an extended period of restrictions.

@reformedcharacters

The OP’s link does not state transmission is completely reduced and no evidence yet has been put forward that it stops transmission so why would people stop discussing it just because some people don’t want them to?

There’s a whole bunch of developing research demonstrating that the vaccines reduce infection and transmission significantly. The people who continue to state the opposite as fact and make arguments based on that incorrect premise should stop saying that, because it’s not true. If you say “the vaccines don’t prevent transmission completely (so you should still take care)” then that is a different statement altogether.

If people were going around saying “children are more at risk than the elderly” or “the virus is primarily spread through fomites so if you wash your hands frequently you’ll be fine” then that’s not discussion, that’s bollocks.

@FourWordsImMuNiTy

We’re not really engaging with the OP’s main point though.

OP I strongly recommend you start this thread again leaving out any derivative of the S Word which is a distraction.

I probably should have. Anyway too late now. But as you said, the main point is that the vaccine reduces transmission. There are a million threads on here where misinformation is spread that it does not.

Have it or not, but don't use that as an excuse.

It also makes no sense to me that people who are anti lockdown would be anti vaccine

The vaccine is the best way to make sure there are no further lockdowns

We need a high rate of vaccination through the whole population to suppress transmission rates

If it's still circulating at high rates in unvaccinated people
-There will be a greater chance for new variants
-There will be local outbreaks on areas with low uptake amongst vulnerable people and health drying those areas could still be overwhelmed
-people who legitimately can't have the vaccine eg those with advanced dementia who can't consent or pregnant women or people with allergies won't be able to rely on herd immunity to be protected and will remain at risk