Can we please stop saying the vaccine does not reduce transmission?

[Frequentflier]

It does. Plenty of evidence now out which everyone can find for themselves. edition.cnn.com/2021/03/29/health/pfizer-and-moderna-covid-19-vaccines-work-wellness/index.html

It is up to you to not take the vaccine if you don't want to. But please stop dressing it up as an unselfish choice if you have no conditions that stop you from taking it.

False positive, that should of course say.

Bluntness100

I couldn’t care less what you think of me I’ve been attacked by many on these threads for pointing out the dangers of forced/coerced medical treatment.

Those who want end freedom in this country for their own protection should pay funding for healthcare based on risk like car insurance.

We’re talking about the reduction of transmission, not the elimination of transmission.

I believe everyone should at least consider and weigh up their own options. You’re not forced to give your children the MMR vaccine, although it is highly suggested you do, it’s not compulsory. I don’t think it’s fair to go around name calling and condemning the people who don’t want it or won’t have it, within reason. I also don’t believe that if you decide against the vaccine you then feel obliged to nay-say and scaremonger those who do want it.

Don’t want it? Ok, maybe they’ll change their mind as more research comes out about long term side effects in the future but don’t tell poor old Linda that the vaccine contains a tracking chip installed by the government to track your every move while you’ve got your location services on, phone in hand, Snapchat maps in the background.

I mean, just have some common sense and respect each other.

Nobody on this thread has suggested any such nonsense conspiracy theory.

Excellent news about the Pfizer vaccine massively reducing the chances of people from catching covid altogether, symptomatic or not.

"Under real-world conditions, mRNA vaccine effectiveness of full immunization (≥14 days after second dose) was 90% against SARS-CoV-2 infections regardless of symptom status"

That is great news. Makes vaccine passports even more unnecessary.

The terrified will be able to emerge from behind their walls of stockpiled pasta and bog roll and stop demanding people give up their bodily autonomy/and or freedom to protect them.

@reformedcharacters

Bluntness100

I couldn’t care less what you think of me I’ve been attacked by many on these threads for pointing out the dangers of forced/coerced medical treatment.

Those who want end freedom in this country for their own protection should pay funding for healthcare based on risk like car insurance.

Well you’re the only person attacking on this one. And repeatedly so.

We all get you’re upset and angry about Covid passports, so lashing out, and yes the consequences for choosing to remain unvaccinated will likely be significant for some, from no entry to pubs, clubs, theatres, restaurants, stadiums right through to no travel abroad and to job losses, but these restrictions are being out in place to protect public health as much as possible,

Have a reasoned discussion, but just hurling abuse is pointless.

Bluntness100

Hurling abuse? Where?

You don’t think the Tories will do this to you?

Before vaccine passports I would have fought them with everything in me against it, now I’d support it.

You’re damn right I’m angry. People like you are removing the freedom of choice. There’s no reasoning with you.

How am I personally removing the element of choice? I do not work in the government, neither am I lobbying them.

And just read your posts, every second one is a personal attack.

However according the the British medical journal it is now looking like immunity following the vaccine may last several years at least.

Do you have a link for this? Seems a bit strange that people will make claims about not knowing how long immunity after infection lasts even though we have more information on that but will happily claim that vaccine induced immunity will last years.

Bluntness100

You view my posts as a personal attack as you are quite rightly owning your totalitarian views which have lead us where we are.

bumbleymummy

I’d be interested to know too since it was only a few months since the first injections.

these restrictions are being out in place to protect public health as much as possible,

Protecting who exactly? The vulnerable people who have been vaccinated? The few people who can’t be vaccinated for medical reasons who could still be at risk from the millions of unvaccinated children in the population or the people for whom the vaccine didn’t work?

I’m really not seeing the logic here.

@bumbleymummy

However according the the British medical journal it is now looking like immunity following the vaccine may last several years at least.

Do you have a link for this? Seems a bit strange that people will make claims about not knowing how long immunity after infection lasts even though we have more information on that but will happily claim that vaccine induced immunity will last years.

Honestly, as anyone who knows my posting history it drives me nuts when people cannot be arsed to google cor themselves and ask someone to do it for them, if you want to engage in the discussion, do your own bloody research. As a one off, I’ll provide a link to one of the very many bmj articles on it.

www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4838

That study says 6 months and based on a study T cell immunity from infections.

@reformedcharacters

That study says 6 months and based on a study T cell immunity from infections.

It also says that is the initial thoughts and indications are it may last much longer. And if you take the time to research it, you will read the scientists who input confirming it.

initial thoughts and indications

As with the vaccines no facts as yet.

As I said on the other thread, what would you call the death no matter how rare from a medical treatment they dont want and are being forced into.. I'd call it manslaughter.

People are ranting about the deadly Brazil strain as a reason to take the vaccine but per million they have a lower death rate then the Uk..
www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

@Bluntness100 The reason I asked is because there may have been a specific paper you were referring to that you based your statement on. If you know my posting history, you’ll know that I post links to papers to back up statements I’ve made.

Thanks for the link. It also supports the idea that immunity after infection will also be longer term. The fact that the ONS survey showed that over 50% of the U.K. have antibodies after vaccination/infection means that we probably have even higher levels of immunity than we think. Previously recovered patients from last year may no longer have high levels of antibodies but are likely to still have T cell immunity.

[quote bumbleymummy]@Bluntness100 The reason I asked is because there may have been a specific paper you were referring to that you based your statement on. If you know my posting history, you’ll know that I post links to papers to back up statements I’ve made.

Thanks for the link. It also supports the idea that immunity after infection will also be longer term. The fact that the ONS survey showed that over 50% of the U.K. have antibodies after vaccination/infection means that we probably have even higher levels of immunity than we think. Previously recovered patients from last year may no longer have high levels of antibodies but are likely to still have T cell immunity.[/quote]
Agree and thanks for the balanced post.

I suspect we may have reached herd immunity, with half of adults being vaccinated and likely a large percentage more with natural immunity following infection.

It’s interesting that schools going back has had little impact so far, with an uptick in kids only, who due to the size of their lungs, hold less of the virus. So whilst still virulent, do not infect as deeply.

I would honestly hope this whole argument on Covid vaccines goes away and there is no need, but I fully understand the caution that’s being played out due to the unknown. Society is opening up, Boris wants that to be “irreversible” and to make it irreversible, then an abundance of caution is required. And I think that’s what we will see for at least the next year or two.

I suspect we may have reached herd immunity, with half of adults being vaccinated and likely a large percentage more with natural immunity following infection.

I think so too and agree that it’s interesting that schools going back didn’t have much of an impact. Although I did suspect that children, as a group, probably had quite a high level of immunity from last year anyway.

I think the concern about vaccine passports is that they would probably only need to be a temporary thing(if you accepted that they were necessary at all) but once something like that is introduced, it opens the floodgates a bit. I think we’ve pushed enough boundaries this year ‘for the greater good’.

I think the concern about vaccine passports is that they would probably only need to be a temporary thing(if you accepted that they were necessary at all) but once something like that is introduced, it opens the floodgates a bit. I think we’ve pushed enough boundaries this year ‘for the greater good’

I can see that concern, but think in reality there is enough resistance on the House of Commons to ensure they will only be in place for as long as they are needed. The “needed” being the subjective part.

Even with travel restricted we will still see people coming into the Uk. Tourists. People visiting families, and I think they will pose a risk going forward. So limiting what they can do is also a protective measure. I don’t think it’s just about Uk citizens being unvaccinated, but the risk travellers to the Uk will also pose, which is likely th bigger risk to be honest.

@Bluntness100

I think the concern about vaccine passports is that they would probably only need to be a temporary thing(if you accepted that they were necessary at all) but once something like that is introduced, it opens the floodgates a bit. I think we’ve pushed enough boundaries this year ‘for the greater good’

I can see that concern, but think in reality there is enough resistance on the House of Commons to ensure they will only be in place for as long as they are needed. The “needed” being the subjective part.

Even with travel restricted we will still see people coming into the Uk. Tourists. People visiting families, and I think they will pose a risk going forward. So limiting what they can do is also a protective measure. I don’t think it’s just about Uk citizens being unvaccinated, but the risk travellers to the Uk will also pose, which is likely th bigger risk to be honest.

But the last 12 months have shown that measures are NOT only in place as long as needed. And "need" is subjective anyway - besides Whitty and co, who else gets a say? I don't agree that locking down indoor hospitality until May is "needed" but they've found a way to justify it. Back in the day there was talk of us opening up for Easter as all the vulnerable will have been vaccinated in Feb - yet here we are, and fully jabbed households are forbidden from meeting indoors.

The "need" is never going away, and nor will the right to choose, once it's lost.

I think the herd immunity Idea is looking increasingly unlikely, just because a couple of mumsnetter think we have reached it already 🧐 doesn’t mean we are anywhere near it, or indeed if it is ever achievable in the future. Many scientists are beginning to think it might not be possible with Covid 19. The jury is still out.