Can we please stop saying the vaccine does not reduce transmission?

[Frequentflier]

It does. Plenty of evidence now out which everyone can find for themselves. edition.cnn.com/2021/03/29/health/pfizer-and-moderna-covid-19-vaccines-work-wellness/index.html

It is up to you to not take the vaccine if you don't want to. But please stop dressing it up as an unselfish choice if you have no conditions that stop you from taking it.

*Those who refuse the vaccine, for their own reasons, are they going to refuse treatment if they become sick? They should, as the doctors and nurses who have to care for them, would far rather they have the vaccine.

Is it right that those who refuse the vaccine, can potentially make others sick, or even die? Surely that's not okay?

If you don't want the vaccine, for your own reasons, then you should be prepared to live life as a hermit, to protect others.*

Actually, I would refuse treatment. Not because I don't think anyone unvaccinated should have to not accept any, but because I have severe phobia about medical settings (and also needles.. hence my reason for declining the vaccine).

However, I will not be living my life as a hermit. If you want to, then go right ahead. Non-vaccinated people are not deadly biohazards and should not be treated as such.

I can more likely see red snowflakes falling from the sky than my local pub requiring a covid vaccine passport.

I think the whole covid passport thing is wishful thinking that soon people will able to smugly declare I Told You So.

You see that attitude all the time on MN and it baffles me.

"There will be food shortages galore and lorries queued for miles after brexit!"

"There will be people dying ON THE STREETS!"

"There will be covid passports and you won't be able to go into your local pub!!"

It's some weird worst-case-disaster fetish that also has an element of voyeurism. Can't be enjoyed alone, you have to tell As Many People As Possible for maximum pleasure.

[quote Frequentflier]@Druidlookingidiot I am perhaps too pro vax, as I have demonstrated in this thread, but I do not believe anyone should be refused NHS treatment, whether they have taken the vaccine or not. Everyone deserves treatment. As do smokers, drinkers, obese people and so on...[/quote]
I do absolutely agree with you, that everyone should be treated. However, looking at it from the NHS worker's point of view, it looks pretty dire if someone refuses something that can keep them well and then expects treatment if they become ill.

Non-vaccinated people are not deadly biohazards and should not be treated as such

They pretty much are.

Non-vaccinated people are not deadly biohazards

I can't agree with that. My much loved relative caught Covid from someone and died. That was pretty deadly for him.

@Bluntness100

Non-vaccinated people are not deadly biohazards and should not be treated as such

They pretty much are.

Would you say the same about someone walking around a supermarket who was mask exempt?

Bluntness, Speeding is against the law, not wanting or accepting a vaccine for oneself is not. People are losing any sense of reason when they scurry around looking for irrelevant comparisons to bolster a point that really isn't valid.

It is faintly ridiculous for people to denigrate those who can't/won't have a vaccination. There is no legal mandate for others to demand this information either. I knew there was a point to GDPR, finally! If you're concerned then distance yourself, protect yourself. That is within your gift - you don't get to visit that on anybody else.

Druidlookingidiot, You have agency over yourself only. Start and end there. Talking of NHS treatment makes you sound very foolish. I'm sure you're not but honestly, that isn't a sensible or supported viewpoint, its just a rant.

@LyingWitchInTheWardrobe

Bluntness, Speeding is against the law, not wanting or accepting a vaccine for oneself is not. People are losing any sense of reason when they scurry around looking for irrelevant comparisons to bolster a point that really isn't valid.

It is faintly ridiculous for people to denigrate those who can't/won't have a vaccination. There is no legal mandate for others to demand this information either. I knew there was a point to GDPR, finally! If you're concerned then distance yourself, protect yourself. That is within your gift - you don't get to visit that on anybody else.

Druidlookingidiot, You have agency over yourself only. Start and end there. Talking of NHS treatment makes you sound very foolish. I'm sure you're not but honestly, that isn't a sensible or supported viewpoint, its just a rant.

I've watched friends and colleagues, who work in the NHS reach the very end of their tether this last year. This virus has affected every single person who works in the NHS.

I think your attitude doesn't who any compassion whatsoever, to those who have worked their socks off, caring during this pandemic.

Call me foolish if you wish but I I'll call you flippant in return.

*show

“Non-vaccinated people are not deadly biohazards and should not be treated as such

They pretty much are.”

There are plenty of people, a large number of who are pregnant women, who aren’t able to get vaccinated. Treating us like lepers, and banning us from going anywhere, is blatant discrimination.

There are plenty of people, a large number of who are pregnant women, who aren’t able to get vaccinated. Treating us like lepers, and banning us from going anywhere, is blatant discrimination.

It's not discrimination to want to avoid people who may infect you. Everyone's got the right to do that. Personally, I would assume that pregnant nonvaccinated women would be fairly careful not catch Covid but I wouldn't be so sure about those without a good reason not be vaccinated.

@Belladonna12

There are plenty of people, a large number of who are pregnant women, who aren’t able to get vaccinated. Treating us like lepers, and banning us from going anywhere, is blatant discrimination.

It's not discrimination to want to avoid people who may infect you. Everyone's got the right to do that. Personally, I would assume that pregnant nonvaccinated women would be fairly careful not catch Covid but I wouldn't be so sure about those without a good reason not be vaccinated.

You wont know who you meet in your day to day activities who has been vaccinated or not.. unless the next step is to tattoo your status on your forehead. Plus, if you have been vaccinated then what danger is an unvaccinated person to you?

You wont know who you meet in your day to day activities who has been vaccinated or not.. unless the next step is to tattoo your status on your forehead. Plus, if you have been vaccinated then what danger is an unvaccinated person to you?

I know my colleagues and friends have been vaccinated. I don't intend to sit or stand near other people for that long so hopefully won't get infected. Vaccines don't work for everybody and they probably won't work that well for me so unvaccinated people are a danger.

If you don't want the vaccine, for your own reasons, then you should be prepared to live life as a hermit, to protect others.

Even if you’re immune because you’ve been infected and recovered?
What about if you’re one of the people who didn’t develop immunity after the vaccine?

@Belladonna12

You wont know who you meet in your day to day activities who has been vaccinated or not.. unless the next step is to tattoo your status on your forehead. Plus, if you have been vaccinated then what danger is an unvaccinated person to you?

I know my colleagues and friends have been vaccinated. I don't intend to sit or stand near other people for that long so hopefully won't get infected. Vaccines don't work for everybody and they probably won't work that well for me so unvaccinated people are a danger.

Surely unvaccinated people are in more danger than someone that has had the vaccine?

It's not discrimination to want to avoid people who may infect you. Everyone's got the right to do that.

Then maybe exercise your right and stay inside?

Why is it just Covid people have this right to not be infected from or affected by? What else?

If someone is deathly allergic to eggs... do they need to avoid public places where eggs would be a danger to them, or do we stop everyone else from entering all public places unless they've emptied their pockets and had their bags searched for eggs? "People can have eggs if they want to, but don't expect to go to pubs or shops or travel on public transport..."

It's not discrimination to want to avoid people who may kill you with eggs. Everyone's got the right to do that.

That statement is correct, what isn't correct is the assumption that every other complete stranger in public places needs to adjust their behaviour for your right to not be killed by your egg allergy, when you could adjust your behaviour and not be killed by your egg allergy (i.e, imagine if we had vaccines for egg allergies?)

I could keep going... but hopefully you can see the utter warped logic already.

It's like covid is the only thing that has ever mattered and ever will matter again.

Druidlookingidiot, this virus has taken it out of so many people, not just the NHS, not just retail workers who've carried on without the accolades. So many people have lost others that they care about and just about everybody has been affected in some adverse way.

This isn't about you and your feelings and whether you're able to keep going - and I really don't care to hear any more heart-rending anecdotes from anybody about the NHS. They are not your personal talisman or tragic heroines to brandish in your attempt to score points and you really have no idea of the circumstances of the people you're posting alongside. None at all.

Do whatever you need to do to keep yourself feel secure; and leave others to do the same.

Then maybe exercise your right and stay inside?

Why should the vast majority of peoole stay inside to avoid those who choose to pose a risk. Why would that vast majority not take control, and ensure those who choose to pose a risk are not permitted anywhere near them, be it in the workplace, the plane, the pub. Or anywhere else for that matter,

Oh wait. That’s what’s happening.

Don’t have a vaccine, that’s your choice and irs fine, but only you should pay the price for that. No one else.

Oh wait. That’s what’s happening.

Do you have a source saying it's happening?

winched

Vaccine passports are under review and if introduced would restrict the freedom of people not wanting to take up the offer of a vaccine, similar to Israel (of all places). As you can see by the responses of those on this thread they will be welcomed by many.

@Bluntness100

Then maybe exercise your right and stay inside?

Why should the vast majority of peoole stay inside to avoid those who choose to pose a risk. Why would that vast majority not take control, and ensure those who choose to pose a risk are not permitted anywhere near them, be it in the workplace, the plane, the pub. Or anywhere else for that matter,

Oh wait. That’s what’s happening.

Don’t have a vaccine, that’s your choice and irs fine, but only you should pay the price for that. No one else.

So a vaccinated person who didn’t develop immunity is ok but someone didn’t have the vaccine but us immune after they recovered from infection is not? Who poses the risk there?

This will be unpopular, but here's my take...

A lot of the people who are vilifying people who don't want to take the vaccine are indulging in a bit of virtue signalling and moral grandstanding that isn't really quite honest. If you believed that the vaccine posed an appreciable risk to your own health, I very much doubt you'd be having it for the good of society. If you don't think there is a risk, that's fine - but how can you call those who do perceive a risk and don't want to take it for that reason 'selfish'? Can you honestly tell me that if you thought that there was a chance it could pose a real risk to your health, you would be getting the vaccine for the "good of society"?

Its not selfishness, its self-preservation.

That statement is correct, what isn't correct is the assumption that every other complete stranger in public places needs to adjust their behaviour for your right to not be killed by your egg allergy, when you could adjust your behaviour and not be killed by your egg allergy (i.e, imagine if we had vaccines for egg allergies?)

Where have I said that people in public places need to adjust their behaviour? I have just said I will do my best to avoid them. Do you not think someone with an egg allergy should avoid people eating eggs?

I could keep going... but hopefully you can see the utter warped logic already.

No all I can see is someone talking nonsense.

Yes I agree that's the case with some people @allmychristmasses. Probably not all. But the strength of opinion of some of the really avid pro-vaxxers is a bit weird! Almost cultish. There's definitely something else going on with their psychology. The emotional blackmail I've seen on some threads is astounding too. People really laying on the guilt about immunosuppressed babies etc. Really going for the Achilles heel. It's a bit disturbing.
I'm, by the way, not anti-vax, and yep, I happen to care about immunosuppressed babies, as most people do!
I think the discussion has lost a lot of reason and balance.
If I do end up having the vaccine when it comes to my cohort (which I probably will, possibly won't) I will not be a better or worse person than I was the day before...

@daily