And so it begins - with pubs?

[MistressoftheDarkSide]

www.theguardian.com/world/2021/mar/24/pubs-should-decide-whether-to-demand-vaccine-passports-pm-says

Some rather good points raised in the article to be fair

I mean "same here" as in, I interact with people who use it.

I didn't think you were having a pop @MercyBooth

I wonder if the prevalence of Toxic Positivity is why I am called a doom monger for reporting factual information I've seen and why I keep having to explain that the existence of vaccines doesn't mean covid is over, that the vulnerable are not yet "vaccinated", and that 35 million doses given still means 82 million left to go, plus autumn boosters.

Some people are in such a rush to celebrate vaccination being finished they've been doing it since vaccination started.

@MistressoftheDarkSide

Also, just thought, even if I wasn't engaging with media, I interact with people who do, and even with my curated engagement, I'll suddenly come across ideologies and newspeak which is suddenly commonplace..... it is a very effective propaganda tool, and way too profitable to stop the juggernaut in a meaningful way..... quite a few people make shedloads of money from Youtube content for a start...... I really dunno what the answer is.......

I follow a bunch of people whose views I disagree with on Twitter because it's interesting (and sometimes alarming) how quickly a commentators ideologically motivated talking point is repeated as if it is accepted fact on social media such as Mumsnet.

"The vulnerable are vaccinated" has been a particular bugbear of mine

I'll have a look for that book - sounds very interesting.

I get your point about the feeling that we "need to know".

It grates massively when people on MN ask a question on a thread and the first response is "Have you not heard of Google?" and "Educate yourself" - I am attracted (addicted?!?) to this site because it feels like the closest thing I can get to a conversation with people who can share their knowledge (which I can verify if I choose) and their opinions. I come here because I don't want to necessarily google, I want to hear hopefully real people's opinions, good or bad.

Interestingly I have been watching a documentary featuring Shoshana Zuboff about surveillance capitalism. It's very interesting, laying out how pervasive and profitable predictive algorithms are. It covers the use of Pokemon Go...... After I've finished it, I'm going to google (haha) who she is, and how much truth she is speaking. I watched the Cambridge Analytica film. Overall my feeling is that we're in way too deep to even begin to unravel ourselves. She has brought up the "secret" microphones in Nest security systems. She mentions that Google Earth was initially a CIA project. I am going to have to verify those claims, but she's remarkably coherent about it all.

And I suspect that Randonautica is another "experiment" too.

I have nothing pressing to do today, bar shifting washing from machine to tumble dryer, so it's keeping me occupied I guess LOL!

I dont think toxic positivity is behind people's responses to you Princess NutNut. I think it's more that people are sick of your negativity and superior attitude to be fair.

@bumbleymummy

I also wondered why the war on health. We know their virus is bad for the overweight, the diabetic, so surely allowing people to improve their health would have also 'helped' the NHS. Why close gyms, why shut outdoor workout areas, why fine people for getting out in the fresh air for exercise.

This!

This has been my argument all along, when people have been moaning about virus shedding joggers (and cyclists) daring to go outside. Ditto local councils rushing to close parks because a few people used them.

I can see this being applied to aircraft flights I.e. no jab, no flight 😳

@EngTech

I can see this being applied to aircraft flights I.e. no jab, no flight 😳

Some airlines have said they’ll. some will take jab or pcr.

On the subject of flights, a friend of ours who travels alot for work, has recently used KLM. To get on his flight, he had to have proof of a negative test. But the airline rejected the NHS proof and he had to go and have a test that he paid for approved by the airline. I have no reason to think he's lying and on googling I found this from last year:

travelweekly.co.uk/articles/389457/airlines-wont-accept-negative-nhs-covid-tests

Oh boy, the opportunities to profit from Covid just keep on giving to some ......

I may have missed this but my question is - why isn't it more widely reported? Where is the furore?

I mean the argument will be it's up to private companies how they conduct their business but even so...... mind boggling!

I've never felt quite so over a barrel in my life.

Me too. If I was with a partner who was imposing all these rules on me I'd be looking at leaving him. But I'm stuck. Trapped. And I can't leave. The government have handed out so much money to their mates to fuck things up and nobody even cares. We have an "Opposition" who won't stand up to quite possibly the worst PM this country has ever had. We are absolutely all trapped in this dystopian nightmare. Meanwhile we have to wear masks at work, Boris and Co don't need to at the briefings, the Queen doesn't need to either but we are "all in this together" ARE WE FUCK.

[quote MistressoftheDarkSide]@Neron

Oh yes.

I like analysing "conspiracy theories". I obviously wouldn't buy into the Queen = lizard thing, and have rejected the 5G stuff and most of the wild ones. But creeping state control is one of my interests, along with how propaganda works - follow the money and disaster capitalism particularly fascinate me.I'm aware of media bias, fakenews and tend to deep dive things with a grain of truth in them.

I didn't want to believe that TPTB could be quite so venal, but what an opportunity - taking advantage of a moral health issue to the max because any resistance implies selfishness and that you want people to die. Perfect storm. It's chilling.[/quote]
What really scares me is that the political left are not only offering no resistance, but actually the loudest voices in calling people selfish for caring about anything but covid. They are too busy arguing about pronouns or whatever to consider major human rights abuses happening in front of their eyes. Terrifying.

I'm annoyed because I had coronavirus over a year ago now, and self isolated before we even had the first lockdown, to my own financial difficulty as I didn't get sick pay. I will have good immunity to the virus after having a symptomatic case and recovering, yet I'm expected to welcome having a vaccine that is basically a waste of money if I am already immune, or else have to live without getting to do everyday things. For literally no reason. Utter BS.

But what if businesses just aren't allowed to operate without accepting the message? It's currently being framed as a choice, but the blurry lines between legislation and fines could lead to prospective fines for those that don't comply or don't stick to the rules?

Again, collective action is important now, while it's still being discussed. If enough businesses say they're against it, I really don't see how they can impose it. Maybe I'm being naive.

I also think this discussion is a massive distraction - we should be focusing on things we can do to keep infections low, and vaccinating the population like mad (everyone who wants it, which in this country is a lot, me included). In most vaccination programs part of the point is that if enough have it it protects those vulnerable who cannot be vaccinated for one reason or another.

I do think it's one of those things where no doubt Tory donors have cash signs flashing in their eyes - a cumbersome system which will ensure a hefty transfer of cash from the taxpayer to their pocket, but of bugger all use to anyone else.

I really don't see how it would be enforceable and something that couldn't be faked anyway. So there would be no practical benefit.

www.bournemouthecho.co.uk/news/19207642.sandbanks-fight-man-hospital-serious-injuries/

There are three stories on the front page about this incident. Sandbanks is of course the posh bit down here.

Call me a pessimist, but I can see summer here being a bit of a nightmare. I think many locals will avoid the town centre and beaches and pubs, whatever measures are put in place

I wonder if the prevalence of Toxic Positivity is why I am called a doom monger for reporting factual information I've seen and why I keep having to explain that the existence of vaccines doesn't mean covid is over, that the vulnerable are not yet "vaccinated"

Can I ask what is your special expertise that people need to pay heed to your 'explanations', any more than they would to any random anonymous poster on a parenting forum?

I've just watched the video clips - wow, just wow

@Puppylucky

I dont think toxic positivity is behind people's responses to you Princess NutNut. I think it's more that people are sick of your negativity and superior attitude to be fair.

There are times when I wish this forum had an 'ignore' function to enable you to tune out those posters who believe their constant pessimism is somehow well-informed 'realism'.

@MistressoftheDarkSide

I'll have a look for that book - sounds very interesting.

I get your point about the feeling that we "need to know".

It grates massively when people on MN ask a question on a thread and the first response is "Have you not heard of Google?" and "Educate yourself" - I am attracted (addicted?!?) to this site because it feels like the closest thing I can get to a conversation with people who can share their knowledge (which I can verify if I choose) and their opinions. I come here because I don't want to necessarily google, I want to hear hopefully real people's opinions, good or bad.

Interestingly I have been watching a documentary featuring Shoshana Zuboff about surveillance capitalism. It's very interesting, laying out how pervasive and profitable predictive algorithms are. It covers the use of Pokemon Go...... After I've finished it, I'm going to google (haha) who she is, and how much truth she is speaking. I watched the Cambridge Analytica film. Overall my feeling is that we're in way too deep to even begin to unravel ourselves. She has brought up the "secret" microphones in Nest security systems. She mentions that Google Earth was initially a CIA project. I am going to have to verify those claims, but she's remarkably coherent about it all.

And I suspect that Randonautica is another "experiment" too.

I have nothing pressing to do today, bar shifting washing from machine to tumble dryer, so it's keeping me occupied I guess LOL!

Zuboff is another I read when it came out, full on though.

Is it Cal Newport who said social media makes you needy? I agree. I hate that I joined MN out of lockdown loneliness but I do try to limit my time on here.

Switching the router off and about to do some drawing now.

@IcedPurple

I wonder if the prevalence of Toxic Positivity is why I am called a doom monger for reporting factual information I've seen and why I keep having to explain that the existence of vaccines doesn't mean covid is over, that the vulnerable are not yet "vaccinated"

Can I ask what is your special expertise that people need to pay heed to your 'explanations', any more than they would to any random anonymous poster on a parenting forum?

I'm just an ordinary mum posting stuff I've seen, the same as anybody.

When someone posts something that is factually incorrect I assume they are unaware of the facts and so I post them.

@Puppylucky

I dont think toxic positivity is behind people's responses to you Princess NutNut. I think it's more that people are sick of your negativity and superior attitude to be fair.

My only "superiority" is that I am aware of the facts and I try to share them.

Some of what I post is fact-based opinion but most of it is just the facts.

It only seems like negativity compared to the toxic positivity that isn't really based in reality.

When someone posts something that is factually incorrect I assume they are unaware of the facts and so I post them.

Well, aen't we the lucky ones to be in the exalted presence of 'PrincessNutNuts" and her 'facts'.

Speaking of facts, the fact is that you are no better informed than anyone here. I understand your deep disappointment that the British vaccine roll-out has been a roaring success, but facts are facts.

@IcedPurple

When someone posts something that is factually incorrect I assume they are unaware of the facts and so I post them.

Well, aen't we the lucky ones to be in the exalted presence of 'PrincessNutNuts" and her 'facts'.

Speaking of facts, the fact is that you are no better informed than anyone here. I understand your deep disappointment that the British vaccine roll-out has been a roaring success, but facts are facts.

I usually try to keep it number-based, wrongly assuming that factually incontrovertible numbers will be uncontroversial.

Or I post graphs.

But it seems to make some people so angry that they ascribe feelings to the facts.

I can only conclude that some people are so immersed in bullshit that they're warm and comfortable in there, and that's why reality makes them angry.

You selectively post whatever graphs and numbers suit your narrative nut nuts. And plenty of others do the opposite. Because there is lots of competing information all the time. You are just so relentlessly unbalanced it’s as though you have an agenda. The reality of our situation is probably somewhere in the middle - not a total catastrophe, nor a miraculous disappearance of covid tomorrow. I just don’t understand why you always choose to post the worst possible stories/news/opinion in every aspect of this pandemic. People stop listening even if you post something that might be an interesting discussion point because of your negative bias.

Toxic positivity? Really??

I can only conclude that some people are so immersed in bullshit that they're warm and comfortable in there, and that's why reality makes them angry.
"Angry" is too strong a word - I don't think an internet random on MN provokes such intense emotions - instead it's your obnoxious, patronising attitude, as illustrated perfectly above, which makes people scroll down past your posts.