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And so it begins - with pubs?

635 replies

MistressoftheDarkSide · 24/03/2021 22:36

www.theguardian.com/world/2021/mar/24/pubs-should-decide-whether-to-demand-vaccine-passports-pm-says

Some rather good points raised in the article to be fair

OP posts:
bumbleymummy · 02/04/2021 10:28

I don't think vaccine passports are a very good idea. Knowing our government they'd farm out running it to some mate and they'd be shit anyway, with lots of forgeries etc, and it would mostly be a wealth transfer exercise from normal people to the 1%.*

Yes, I have concerns about this too.

MistressoftheDarkSide · 02/04/2021 10:30

I agree @IloveJKRowling.

But what if businesses just aren't allowed to operate without accepting the message? It's currently being framed as a choice, but the blurry lines between legislation and fines could lead to prospective fines for those that don't comply or don't stick to the rules?

Will the courts then be overwhelmed with people challenging fines and other matters slipping down the priority lists?

If people figure out ways to fake or get round the new measures, will the business be held responsible or will the offender end up with fines and maybe jail time? The ramifications have a huge ripple effect.

OP posts:
MistressoftheDarkSide · 02/04/2021 10:33

It will be very interesting to see the frontline providers of all this new tech as well - as I suspect they will be very well connected and a chunk of public money will once again get sucked into this particular part of the private sector.

OP posts:
Neron · 02/04/2021 10:35

@MistressoftheDarkSide

I had my mind turned a long time ago, but I just remember thinking they were nuts. Now I apologise because aside from the crazy bits, like lizards as you say - a lot of what they have said is coming true.

I'm one of the excluded, illegal for me to work. I kept wondering why the government were so hell bent on ignoring us. Why are they decimating small businesses, forcing people to give up their shops/venues etc. Now we know.

I also wondered why the war on health. We know their virus is bad for the overweight, the diabetic, so surely allowing people to improve their health would have also 'helped' the NHS. Why close gyms, why shut outdoor workout areas, why fine people for getting out in the fresh air for exercise.

The lunacy of it all, and quite frankly I'm appalled at how easy things are being stripped from us and people are complying. It's too late now, this is the future. If you want any semblance of a life then you have to take a vaccine that for the whole, will do bugger all for you as the risk of being ill from c19 is so minimal.

Beat the people long enough, and they'll comply with whatever the government want.

bumbleymummy · 02/04/2021 10:37

I also wondered why the war on health. We know their virus is bad for the overweight, the diabetic, so surely allowing people to improve their health would have also 'helped' the NHS. Why close gyms, why shut outdoor workout areas, why fine people for getting out in the fresh air for exercise.

This!

MistressoftheDarkSide · 02/04/2021 10:56

@Neron

I agree with everything you say.

I've muscled through a ton of shit in my 52 years, holding myself together and also clinging on to hope.

Now just functioning in society is dependent on technology that changes so fast by the time I get my head round one thing, it's virtually obsolete. I can see the positives in some of it, but the market means we constantly deal with innovation and the drive to be competitive in growth markets. How many end users, like me, go a bit Luddite and stick to what we know until we are absolutely forced to use new things that add yet another layer of complication to everyday tasks.

I'm non-essential too, and honestly don't know if it will be worth re-opening my shop. I feel ashamed to admit that I currently feel that I just can't be bothered. But then that's admitting defeat.

Trying to get the small business support available this time around was so much more complicated. First lockdown, we got a letter - confirm your business details and bank accounts and in came the grant. This time, first locate the correct online form. We filled in three and were rejected. After dozens of attempts to get through to a person to ask which form (the titles of which were deceptively similar and prone to unannounced change) we were supposed to use, we managed to talk to someone sympathetic in the rates department, who explained that no-one in the grant department can answer the phones because they wouldn't be able to process applications at the same time. Nothing on the local govt website to explain this. This chap was so very helpful, so we finally filled in the right form and got our grant.

And there's the rub - we were lucky to get support and are of course grateful - but what about the hamstrung self-employed? And all those others who slipped through the net? My friends in live performance who now rely on UC and have to take any job going to survive, or re-train in fields that won't fully utilise their talents and wipe out years of training and focus?

I've lived by the mantra adapt and survive, but it's not about adapting any more, it's about completely mutating! And in my darker moments, as I see the world changing at breakneck speed, I wonder if it's worth surviving at all......

OP posts:
SamW98 · 02/04/2021 11:30

I think some of the more 'out there' conspiracy theories - lizards, microchips, 5G etc - meant a lot of people just rolled their eyes and dismissed anyone who asked questions about where this was going

I asked a question regarding whether the apparent lack of flu this year could mean that some flu cases had incorrectly been diagnosed as COVID by a positive PCR test - I was attacked on FB called an anti Vax conspiracy theorist and that I'm too thick to understand the difference so no point explaining to me without crayons followed by rolling eye emojis - for asking a valid question

Its difficult not to have suspicions now when the very things that were predicted to happen are slowly coming to fruition.
To go from the govt not considering vaccine passports to thinking about it to the fact its now a pretty done deal in about a fortnight - doesn't add up at all. This has been in the pipeline for a long time

I feel so sorry for publicans who have jumped through so many hoops to comply to the new rules and now more and more obstacles being put in front of them
Its hardly worth most places opening

Mydogdoesntlisten · 02/04/2021 11:30

I think we need to let our MPs know that this has to stop. I'm fortunate in that my local MP is one of the Tory rebels who is actually standing up against all of this.
If enough of them vote new measures down they won't become law.
I agree though, it's chilling how this is playing out.

the80sweregreat · 02/04/2021 11:43

@bumbleymummy

* I don't think vaccine passports are a very good idea. Knowing our government they'd farm out running it to some mate and they'd be shit anyway, with lots of forgeries etc, and it would mostly be a wealth transfer exercise from normal people to the 1%.*

Yes, I have concerns about this too.

I'm sure that these 'passports ' will appear on the so called black market in time. The police are too busy arresting each other to really be able to police every single pub or restaurant going and ones without these documents will still be able to go into these places to eat and drink. All you need is a bit of cash and turn your phone off. We are heading for an authoritarian state though. Slowly , but it's coming as predicted last year. Scary times.
Neron · 02/04/2021 12:56

@MistressoftheDarkSide
So sorry you had to jump through all those hoops. It's shocking how people people like you and I have been left.

I was told no for the SE support and grants etc, but was told I could claim JSA and work up to 16 hours a week. They forgot to tell me that also came with an £80 a week limit, so where I was doing a 10 hour day for minimal wage (and not much else), I now have to pay back the entire amount as I shouldn't have got it.

Coupled with all this gaslighting, corruption and coercion I am also completely done. What sort of life are we headed in to?

MistressoftheDarkSide · 02/04/2021 13:30

@Neron That's so ridiculous! My heart absolutely goes out to you.

@SamW98 That's a very interesting point, and it chimes with other prominent social issues that the moment you ask a genuine question, you can get shut down and ridiculed in a heart beat, and even reported for hatespeech / thought crime.

Interestingly I've just pootled around Youtube just to see where we're at with current Covid "conspiracies" and I found one video, just one that covers everything from who owns and controls the media and social media, how information has been controlled during the whole thing, the fact that there have been patents taken out in the US on Coronaviruses (Not Covid 19 specifically) and much dodginess.

It's not the Original Plandemic video, which apparently has debunked to the far side of debunked and can no longer be found, I found it on of all things the channel of an Avon rep, and she had had to film it from another platform on a device to upload it today. She intends to come back with Part 2. I don't know who has produced it, and apart from a few queries about the coincidences around the origins of C-19, it's much more about the wider implications, and finished with a segment about the great Re-set which is not a conspiracy theory, it is a genuine, global move to "Build back better" which is a quote used by our own PM in at least one of his broadcasts.

Funnily enough every video that comes up when you type in just the word plandemic is a debunking video, and videos about how people questioning all of this are probably mentally ill (and dangerous for even thinking about this stuff).

Now, I don't know how far I want to go in thinking about how this pandemic has come about, but I don't see why I shouldn't be allowed, without overt censorship, to look at some of the wilder claims and then do the research myself. But it's for the greater good, you may say, because some people will go over the edge etc etc. But they're going to have to control this so tightly, because if anything ever does come to light and there is evidence to prove that that there are massively unsavoury elements in the "dealing with it" context, that point to a drive for global authoritarianism, then a damn sight more people will definitely lose the plot. Or will they?

It has also occurred to me that we are bombarded with the messages "keep calm and carry on" "think positive" "be kind" in many forms, in quite a cult like manner, because this is the key to resilience, for your own good, such an overworked and over-simplified word right now, implying that no matter how bad things are for you, if you don't keep ploughing on regardless, it's an inner moral failing, nothing to do with, for example, a benefits system apparently designed to undermine your responsible choices at every turn.

The more I look into this, the more sinister it seems. And it's hard to correlate it all with the real world when the sun is shining, it's a weekend of relaxation, I can meet someone else without fear of prosecution so yes, I have lots to be grateful for......... so I get why people want to trust in abetter future.

But what costs come with it? And will it really be so much better?

OP posts:
AcornAutumn · 02/04/2021 14:03

OP "Now just functioning in society is dependent on technology that changes so fast by the time I get my head round one thing, it's virtually obsolete. I can see the positives in some of it, but the market means we constantly deal with innovation and the drive to be competitive in growth markets. How many end users, like me, go a bit Luddite and stick to what we know until we are absolutely forced to use new things that add yet another layer of complication to everyday tasks."

Same here.

AcornAutumn · 02/04/2021 14:04

OP "I can meet someone else without fear of prosecution so yes, I have lots to be grateful for"

People should be furious, not grateful. I don't often say "should".

MistressoftheDarkSide · 02/04/2021 14:32

@AcornAutumn

I hear you - and I posted the gratitude thing with a hint of sarcasm - having to be grateful for the return of a fundamental human right is very galling - I feel I should be grateful because the world tells me so but it doesn't correlate to my true feelings by any means! But speaking my true feelings would have me pilloried in a heart beat!

OP posts:
MercyBooth · 02/04/2021 14:34

YY @Neron

the feeling dehumanized, being uncomfortable in a mask , being gaslighted and psychologically abused by the Government , the goalpost moving , the feeling like a scruffy tramp, and knowing that others arent facing the same restrictions because #oneruleforthem is the perfect atmosphere and motivation for eating healthily and weight loss. NOT

MercyBooth · 02/04/2021 14:37

It has also occurred to me that we are bombarded with the messages "keep calm and carry on" "think positive" "be kind" in many forms, in quite a cult like manner

Its called toxic positivity

bootshealthandbeauty.com/toxic-positivity/?postCategory=wellness

MercyBooth · 02/04/2021 14:55

@Neron I wasnt having a pop btw. Ive been comfort eating as a way of dealing with all i put in that post.

MistressoftheDarkSide · 02/04/2021 15:14

Thanks for those links @MercyBooth - the toxic positivity stuff is very powerful - and helpful to me personally too.

And as for the BMJ link - wow, a can of worms that I hadn't even really thought about in such detail. It's all a nightmare made absolutely real.

OP posts:
beginningoftheend · 02/04/2021 15:22

Am pleased to have a term 'toxic positivity' now as I am very tired of this. School do it to the kids constantly - always having to look on the bright side.

Resilience has become the modern stiff upper lip.

AcornAutumn · 02/04/2021 15:28

Some of you might enjoy a book by Barbara Ehrenreich called "Smile or Die"

I have to say, most of this shit you don't notice if you don't look at media. I can see that media is really messing with people's heads and I'm surprised it isn't more rejected.

MistressoftheDarkSide · 02/04/2021 15:40

Trouble is media is the ultimate honey trap - it gives us an easy route to things we enjoy - films, TV, music etc. And it's so easy to just watch Sky news live for updates - in this scenario, the pandemic I mean, missing something has its own problems in terms of rules and guidelines.

I don't have terrestrial TV. We had it for a while while my MIL lived with us, and I was just boggling at the adverts and the tone and content of various programmes. When she went into the care home we stopped it.

I lobe books, but if my time is limited, I can put on an audio book or a video in the background while doing something else. It's the convenience.

I look up things from the news that don't ring true; could I step away from it all in a meaningful manner? I doubt it. I am in that regard one of the "captured" - dammit!

But I have managed to avoid facebook like the plague for this lockdown, and that has been very pleasant.

OP posts:
MistressoftheDarkSide · 02/04/2021 15:43

Also, just thought, even if I wasn't engaging with media, I interact with people who do, and even with my curated engagement, I'll suddenly come across ideologies and newspeak which is suddenly commonplace..... it is a very effective propaganda tool, and way too profitable to stop the juggernaut in a meaningful way..... quite a few people make shedloads of money from Youtube content for a start...... I really dunno what the answer is.......

OP posts:
IcedPurple · 02/04/2021 15:47

@AcornAutumn

Some of you might enjoy a book by Barbara Ehrenreich called "Smile or Die"

I have to say, most of this shit you don't notice if you don't look at media. I can see that media is really messing with people's heads and I'm surprised it isn't more rejected.

Great book. The cult of 'positivity' started in America, but as with so many things American, it has now hit our shores too. "Looking on the bright side" and 'thinking positively" works for some and that's ffine. But forcing 'positiv thinking' on everyone is oppressive, and just piles guilt and resentment on top of misery. Sometimes it's OK to acknowledge that things are absolute shit and that there really isn't a silver lining, other than 'this too shall pass'.
AcornAutumn · 02/04/2021 16:07

@MistressoftheDarkSide

Also, just thought, even if I wasn't engaging with media, I interact with people who do, and even with my curated engagement, I'll suddenly come across ideologies and newspeak which is suddenly commonplace..... it is a very effective propaganda tool, and way too profitable to stop the juggernaut in a meaningful way..... quite a few people make shedloads of money from Youtube content for a start...... I really dunno what the answer is.......
Same here

But having the TV or radio on is no benefit at all

If the newspeak becomes important, find out when you need to know. I appreciate some people need to know for work but beyond that, I don't understand why people want to lap up so much media.

Smile or Die is an old book - I see 2010 but I thought it was older, perhaps because it resonated so much.

I can't recommend low media enough. I think some people are embarrassed to say "I don't know" when certain topics come up but screw it, it's not my responsibility to know everything. I think people are starting to feel like they ought to know everything and are ashamed of not knowing.

In real life, I'm not sure if many would say "educate yourself".

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