Vaccine supply about to significantly reduce

[DareIask]

Looks like Europe may have got their way

Apparently the uk is due 10m dosis from the Holland factory , which the EU hasn't approved to use yet and which the UK helped setting up, 10m dosis can help loads!

@Belladonna12

It sounds like they may just be planning on blocking the AstraZeneca vaccine which doesn't seem that unreasonable considering we can make it to ourselves and import from India. I'm more worried that they might try to block the Pfizer one as people need that for the second dose. It will be outrageous if they try that because Pfizer has been supplying them in line with their contract. As Pfizer have pointed out, we can retaliate by not giving them the products they need to make it and then everyone will suffer. I think we could do the same thing with the AstraZeneca vaccine . I think a lot of this is the EU trying to cover for the fact that they have been totally incompetent with regard to vaccination. Hopefully they will not demonstrate further incompetence.

That’s a slightly naive attitude. This whole situation has come about because the EU chose not to prioritise their own citizens for vaccines made in Europe. The UK (at least with AZ) and US (with Pfizer) ensured contractually that their own people would get their home made vaccines firsts (even Canada is reliant on EU vaccines because Trump made it illegal for American made Pfizer to cross the border- I believe this is being fixed but not sorted yet). EU never had this stipulation. I can understand the argument for protecting ones own citizens however we’re not safe until we’re all safe. We need to try and do what’s best for the greater good.

That’s a slightly naive attitude. This whole situation has come about because the EU chose not to prioritise their own citizens for vaccines made in Europe. The UK (at least with AZ) and US (with Pfizer) ensured contractually that their own people would get their home made vaccines firsts (even Canada is reliant on EU vaccines because Trump made it illegal for American made Pfizer to cross the border- I believe this is being fixed but not sorted yet). EU never had this stipulation. I can understand the argument for protecting ones own citizens however we’re not safe until we’re all safe. We need to try and do what’s best for the greater good.

Sorry, I'm not sure of your point. Which part of my attitude is naïve and what have I said that you disagree with?

You said that the EU has been
“ totally incompetent with regard to vaccination”
I don’t think that’s fair. Pfizer vaccine was developed by BIOntech in Germany. So arguably a EU vaccine albeit manufactured by an American company. Meanwhile the EU decided not to have an “EU first” vaccination production strategy. You might disagree with that but some would say that’s a reasonable approach
(FWIW I think the EU have been fairly dickish and unreasonable with regard to their attitude towards the UK in all this but I would not say they’ve been incompetent )

@Belladonna12
Also think they’ve (EU) been slow rolling out whatever vaccine they have, but again that doesn’t make them incompetent. Plenty of countries are far far behind the EU with their vaccination efforts.

@Frazzled2207

You said that the EU has been “ totally incompetent with regard to vaccination” I don’t think that’s fair. Pfizer vaccine was developed by BIOntech in Germany. So arguably a EU vaccine albeit manufactured by an American company. Meanwhile the EU decided not to have an “EU first” vaccination production strategy. You might disagree with that but some would say that’s a reasonable approach (FWIW I think the EU have been fairly dickish and unreasonable with regard to their attitude towards the UK in all this but I would not say they’ve been incompetent )

The problem is not just that they didn't say "EU first". They were very slow in negotiating the contracts. AstraZeneca have said that this is why there has been a production shortfall in Belgium and the Netherlands- they have had much less time to sort out problems than they had in the UK.

They were slow to finalise their contracts and they are using pretty dangerous language towards the UK at the moment which to my mind is unfair.

“Totally incompetent” suggest they’ve not manufactured or administered a single dose. Which is not true.

“Totally incompetent” suggest they’ve not manufactured or administered a single dose. Which is not true.

That's your interpretation of "totally incompetent" and it is a fairly ridiculous interpretation. Would you feel they were competent if they had delivered two doses?

I think we'll have to agree to disagree.

They played a key part in financing several vaccines, notably Pfizer, which is now the lead player worldwide. If they hadn't helped finance Pfizer we wouldn't have been injecting it in arms in December.

On vaccinating their own citizens 10% have now received a first dose. That's not great. But many nations are yet to start at all. Getting out of this mess is going to be a marathon not a spring and generally speaking a collaborative attitude with other nations is what's going to get us through.

@Frazzled2207

I think we'll have to agree to disagree.

They played a key part in financing several vaccines, notably Pfizer, which is now the lead player worldwide. If they hadn't helped finance Pfizer we wouldn't have been injecting it in arms in December.

On vaccinating their own citizens 10% have now received a first dose. That's not great. But many nations are yet to start at all. Getting out of this mess is going to be a marathon not a spring and generally speaking a collaborative attitude with other nations is what's going to get us through.

My understanding is that the EU didn't finance Pfizer or sign contracts until they knew the vaccine would work and I don't think that it wasn't till November. We did it in July last year .I haven't read anything stating that it is thanks to the EU financing Pfizer that we got the jabs in December. Do you have a link?

Germany did finance pfizer and curevac

www.fiercepharma.com/manufacturing/biontech-curevac-bag-745m-german-funding-for-covid-19-vaccine-hopefuls

What people here are struggling to understand is that the Pfizer is not fulfilling the contractual obligations that it has signed with the EU. Pfizer did sign it. The doses were promised. They have not been delivered.

The EU doesn't have an issue with the UK, they have a legal issue with Pfizer. It's pretty simple stuff.

[quote 3asAbird]Germany did finance pfizer and curevac

www.fiercepharma.com/manufacturing/biontech-curevac-bag-745m-german-funding-for-covid-19-vaccine-hopefuls[/quote]
Germany did make an investment but that's not the EU and there is no suggestion that they wouldn't have been able to make the vaccine otherwise. A huge amount of money for that vaccine actually came from the US.

@Worknoplay

What people here are struggling to understand is that the Pfizer is not fulfilling the contractual obligations that it has signed with the EU. Pfizer did sign it. The doses were promised. They have not been delivered.

The EU doesn't have an issue with the UK, they have a legal issue with Pfizer. It's pretty simple stuff.

I think you are the one who is struggling to understand which is ironic considering you think it is so simple. Pfizer are fulfilling their contractual obligations to the EU. The controversy is over the AstraZeneca vaccine.

@Worknoplay

What people here are struggling to understand is that the Pfizer is not fulfilling the contractual obligations that it has signed with the EU. Pfizer did sign it. The doses were promised. They have not been delivered.

The EU doesn't have an issue with the UK, they have a legal issue with Pfizer. It's pretty simple stuff.

Oh dear.

some dialling down of the rhetoric this morning which is good - below from the Guardian live feed. @Belladonna12 will agree with you on your last post.

The European commission has this morning made some effort to tone down the rhetoric in the vaccine row with the UK, insisting that it has no desire to place a ban on the export of jabs to Britain. Instead it is focusing on getting AstraZeneca to deliver on its commitments to supply vaccines to the EU, the commission’s spokesman Eric Mamer told reporters at a briefing. He said the EU wanted “reciprocity” in vaccine exports.

Mamer said:

[Ursula von der Leyen] has given our view of what the situation is and what are the objectives that we are following.

This is not about banning vaccine exports, this is about making sure that companies deliver on their commitments to the member states and the European Union that are inscribed in the contracts that they have with us.

Therefore, this is our objective, to make sure that the contracts that we have signed are respected.

In that context, the president has said that, of course, we see that, actually, companies that manufacture doses in the EU have been exporting very widely - which is in itself a good thing - but that we want to see reciprocity and proportionality in these exports.

Mamer was referring to comments Von der Leyen made in an interview published at the weekend. His tone was perhaps a bit less confrontational than his boss’s, but he was not indicating any change in policy.

Re: curevac the EU offered 79m loan in the end, which first installment would be 25m and the rest on completion of Key mile stones. Don't know if it reached it key miles though.

UK and 2 big pharma companies are now partnered with Curevac.

Sorry above should state 75million not 79

Pfizer got a 100million loan

ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/STATEMENT_20_2510

I am working as an SEN support worker in a busy college. I work with older students between the ages of 16-20 who have left school. Some of the students live independently, some with their families. During the pandemic, we have taught the students remotely. Since opening up the college, the students have preferred to continue to study remotely apart from two who I see face to face. There is no requirement for them to come into college if they're progressing well. Some of the students worry about the virus & to be quite honest, I too feel a level of anxiety due to not having had the vaccine. The manager however, has insisted all the SEN students are to come into the college & be taught face to face in a tiny room with barely any ventilation. The students have expressed their preference to continue remotely, even after having been invited back into the college but the manager is adamant they are to come in. The manager will not sit with any of the students because she is worried about contracting the virus. Am I being unreasonable to think the manager is being unreasonable here?

@coffeewithcream

I am working as an SEN support worker in a busy college. I work with older students between the ages of 16-20 who have left school. Some of the students live independently, some with their families. During the pandemic, we have taught the students remotely. Since opening up the college, the students have preferred to continue to study remotely apart from two who I see face to face. There is no requirement for them to come into college if they're progressing well. Some of the students worry about the virus & to be quite honest, I too feel a level of anxiety due to not having had the vaccine. The manager however, has insisted all the SEN students are to come into the college & be taught face to face in a tiny room with barely any ventilation. The students have expressed their preference to continue remotely, even after having been invited back into the college but the manager is adamant they are to come in. The manager will not sit with any of the students because she is worried about contracting the virus. Am I being unreasonable to think the manager is being unreasonable here?

@coffeewithcream I’d start a separate thread.

People under 50 in the UK will begin to be offered Moderna’s Covid-19 vaccine within three weeks, according to a report in the Mail on Sunday.

More than 500,000 new doses of the US vaccine will be used to expanded the programme to people in lower age cohorts in mid-April, the paper says.

Doctors are expected to administer the first doses of the new vaccine, which will join Pfizer and AstraZeneca in the UK’s vaccine stocks, within three weeks.

Just seen this.

1. The only way out of the coronavirus mess is for vaccine companies and politicians around the world to co-operate, think carefully about their communications and act with efficiency and decency.
2. Oxford scientists (public finance) did brilliant job getting the first safe, effective vaccine ready and then teamed up with Astra Zeneca (commercial) to deal with rollout.
3. Astra Zeneca appear to have agreed contracts which effectively promised the same batches of vaccines to both U.K. And Europe! A strategic error.
4. EU contract for these vaccines was signed a day BEFORE the UK contract for these same vaccines.
5. Production of vaccines on this scale and in the desired timeframe has never been needed/possible before so basically, all parties have not exactly covered themselves in glory, but it is understandable in the circs.
6. UK Govt has spent last 3/4 years waving Union Jacks and being generally obnoxious to their European counterparts. It's hardly surprising, although disappointing, that the EU overreacted to the veiled threats from the UK about limiting supply. Which have been going on for several weeks before this current crisis, btw.
7. The EU's PR on this has been poor - they didn't make clear that they have exported WAY MORE than UK and supplied 10 million to U.K., whilst receiving ZERO. Don't see that in the papers, do you?

So, could the grown-ups on the world stage please just get everyone settled down by acting their age and stopping with the xenophobic and nationalist bollocks and get on with the job?

Thanks in advance.

@Casiloco can you point me in the news where it says the uk will limit the supplies to the EU. ? As I’ve not read anything like that but quite the opposite. Btw the Eu doesn’t export , private companies based in the Eu export

The deal might have been signed day after , but deal was agreed months In advance when the uk invested in Oxford so they could start on the vaccine. And anyway , the contracts says it clearly that the EU would only have vaccines from the uk plants once the EU had been supplied 300m doses. Not quite there yet.

The signing of EU contract the day before U.K. is a complete red herring. The timing is less important than the details

[quote EasterIssland]@Casiloco can you point me in the news where it says the uk will limit the supplies to the EU. ? As I’ve not read anything like that but quite the opposite. Btw the Eu doesn’t export , private companies based in the Eu export

The deal might have been signed day after , but deal was agreed months In advance when the uk invested in Oxford so they could start on the vaccine. And anyway , the contracts says it clearly that the EU would only have vaccines from the uk plants once the EU had been supplied 300m doses. Not quite there yet.[/quote]
I assume you meant to say "once the UK had been supplied" but in any event, the contract most certainly does not "say it clearly"!
Amazing how many armchair lawyers on MN seem to have persuaded themselves that this is the case.