To think the EU countries are utter fuckwits over the AZ vaccine?

[annonnymous]

Words fail me at the utter stupidity and reckless behaviour of many EU countries over the whole vaccination thing and in particular the AZ vaccine.

40 people with blood clots with AZ ..... which is statistically lower than the average number of people who get blood clots anyway and the same as the Pfizer one! And the twatty french president saying AZ was quite ineffective in the over 65s and the whole of the EU slow the give it to over 65s because there was no evidence (because it wasn't tested on them) that it worked. It does, and sheer logic says it will. Your immune system doesn't fold up at 65.

With covid cases rising, Paris hospitals shipping out seriously ill patients to other areas, Italy in serious problems again, they need to stop this.

On no real evidence they are putting the lives of thousands of people at risk and putting a question mark over an effective vaccine which makes no profit and can be used worldwide cheaply.

The WHO say it's safe. FFS Europe, get a grip and stop the politics.

The EU negotiated a series of very suboptimal contracts for vaccines. You have to assume that the problems with AZ supply are also a factor for all the other contracts too. Including Pfizer.

I’d say that supply of vaccine in the EU is slowing. They allowed countries to use Sputnik today without EMA permission.

In other words, what has happened with AZ applies to all contracts. This is a complete mess and AZ is currently the only vaccine with mass production but the EU cannot obtain it and has also angered pharma companies with their attitude.

US and UK I think are actively working to cut out production links and supply chain connected to the EU. Sensible for us, given the Protocol mess.

@BigWoollyJumpers

AZ have messed up with European deliveries on many occasions. They have failed to deliver on delivery dates on many many occasions. This has seriously affected the vaccine rollout in many European countries and is still doing so

And yet, EU countries are sitting on millions of doses, quietly going out of date, not having set up mass vaccination in many countries, Italy has only just started. You could argue they are trying to come up with strategies to mitigate the fact that they have not even used the stock they have. Imagine if it goes out of date and it hasn't been used. They could use the excuse that they weren't convinced of it's efficacy or safety.

I cannot speak for other countries but my country (ireland) are not sitting on doses. 98% of vaccines see given within 5 days of receipt here. Any shortfall this pause causes will made up next week. There are millions of vaccine doses sitting in an AZ factory in the Netherlands. They cannot be sent out because AZ has not applied for regulatory approval for their factory.

@LexMitior

The EU negotiated a series of very suboptimal contracts for vaccines. You have to assume that the problems with AZ supply are also a factor for all the other contracts too. Including Pfizer.

I’d say that supply of vaccine in the EU is slowing. They allowed countries to use Sputnik today without EMA permission.

In other words, what has happened with AZ applies to all contracts. This is a complete mess and AZ is currently the only vaccine with mass production but the EU cannot obtain it and has also angered pharma companies with their attitude.

US and UK I think are actively working to cut out production links and supply chain connected to the EU. Sensible for us, given the Protocol mess.

Not true in terms of the US. The UK is actually are very small country and isolating yourselves will be to your own detriment. Horrible to see the jingoistic attitudes here.

But Evanna it’s not just about the deliveries as Germany and France is sitting on doses. The delivery schedule is a distraction. And the U.K. suffered with lower deliveries back in December and January. The difference is the U.K. government did not throw their toys out of the pram. And on this I think Boris has been “perfect” as you put it. He has not engaged at all other than to reassure the British public. That is exactly the right response. Hence the polls, his rating is higher than it has ever been.

Again you are misleading on the thread eva

The German company BioNTech, founded by two scientists, has teamed up with Pfizer on a vaccine

BioNTech is a German company founded by two German scientists that have teamed up with Pjizer. So of course Germany have everything to gain by damaging other vaccines and discrediting them!

You are completely dishonest to imply anything else.

@Itsalonghaul

Again you are misleading on the thread eva

The German company BioNTech, founded by two scientists, has teamed up with Pfizer on a vaccine

BioNTech is a German company founded by two German scientists that have teamed up with Pjizer. So of course Germany have everything to gain by damaging other vaccines and discrediting them!

You are completely dishonest to imply anything else.

I clearly stated that Biontech is German. Pfizer is American.

Only 7 million out of 14.8 million AZ vaccines have been used in the EU.

That in itself is the most appalling and quite frankly irresponsible situation given there are tens of thousands of people dying all over the world from covid, that would have otherwise lived had they been given the vaccine.

How the EU can sit on so many life saving vaccines is beyond me. It is disgusting.

Yes eva so the vaccine was in fact German, it was not concocted or produced anywhere else, but Germany. It simply had the backing of a big pharma company! So you are trying to distance Germany from the political and economic gain it stands to make from the Pjizer vaccine is misleading in the extreme!

Germany have real skin in the game, as do France for political reasons, they have every reason to discredit both the Oxford AZ vaccine, and the UK for using it. There are very real and obvious reasons for doing this. You are trying, and failing to change the facts.

Given how many people now stand to die because of the political games being played, really eva you should be deeply ashamed of your position on this.

@Evanna13 - why is it jingoistic. If I had gone rah rah Britain then fair comment.

But of course US and UK are working their own supply chains. And no, after the triggering the protocol, the UK is not looking to rely on EU production. It would be foolish to do that.

Of course, Brexit meant that would have happened anyway, but it came very early in terms of trade policy in a crisis context.

[quote LexMitior]@Evanna13 - why is it jingoistic. If I had gone rah rah Britain then fair comment.

But of course US and UK are working their own supply chains. And no, after the triggering the protocol, the UK is not looking to rely on EU production. It would be foolish to do that.

Of course, Brexit meant that would have happened anyway, but it came very early in terms of trade policy in a crisis context.[/quote]
The EU also work on their own supply chains. AZ supply to Europe is from the EU not from the UK.

If other countries don't want AZ vaccine then why don't they'd release their orders and any supplies to countries that do. Why is that so hard ? And why is France threatening to sue AZ for non delivery ? Either use it or don't, no one cares. Just stop moaning and get on with vaccinating your populations faster before more mutations occur.

@Itsalonghaul

Yes eva so the vaccine was in fact German, it was not concocted or produced anywhere else, but Germany. It simply had the backing of a big pharma company! So you are trying to distance Germany from the political and economic gain it stands to make from the Pjizer vaccine is misleading in the extreme!

Germany have real skin in the game, as do France for political reasons, they have every reason to discredit both the Oxford AZ vaccine, and the UK for using it. There are very real and obvious reasons for doing this. You are trying, and failing to change the facts.

Given how many people now stand to die because of the political games being played, really eva you should be deeply ashamed of your position on this.

I have only stated the facts. It is you who is interpreting them based on your own nationalistic viewpoint.

I do not think you fully understand what I have said in this thread. If you want to understand my points please feel free to read all my posts. I am pro vaccine, whatever the brand AZ, Pfizer etc. I would be happy to take any of them regardless of where they are researched, produced etc... I think many in the UK see any criticism of AZ as a criticism of the UK , this is not the case. All the brands have their place and all will be used. We all need to work together on this instead of bickering.

It's made me a bit nervous tbh. I'm on the pill which increases your risk of clots anyway. I have no idea when I will get my vaccine but I'm hoping they've sorted whatever it is out by then.

@newstart1234

It’s frustrating to see these things interpreted as ‘political’ meaning ‘knocking the az vaccine for political gain’. It’s more cultural or nuanced than that. And it happens the other way round too, I see press coverage of the U.K. here that just doesn’t accurately present the truth because it’s interpreted events from a danish cultural perspective. Understandable I suppose but still frustrating.

Absolutely right it is...it's interesting to see what's reported on national news here in France, or watch an interview with the likes of Mr Castex last night, and then look at reports the UK MSM this morning (if they can be bothered).

It's not uncommon to see something written or said in e.g. France has had it's tone and possibly even it's exact meaning changed in tone by the process of translation and possibly also due paraphrasing...

Watching just the likes of Sky or the BBC doesn't give the full picture of what goes on in European countries or what European politicians are really saying, no more so than watching FR2, FR3 or BFMTV gives the full picture of what goes on in the UK and it's politics.

eva well we definitely agree on that point!

The EU should stop bickering amongst themselves and just get on and vaccinate, they will eventually be held accountable in elections for this chaos and loss of life.

The rest of the world is cracking on, it is only a few countries scoring points and playing the games that the gravity of the situation seems entirely lost on them. In any other accountable country, VDL would have been sacked ages ago! How is she still in a job?! Who would sack her even?

It is a joke, but with the most awful consequences for normal people, that deserve much better.

@Evanna13 - that’s by accident, not design!

@Itsalonghaul

eva well we definitely agree on that point!

The EU should stop bickering amongst themselves and just get on and vaccinate, they will eventually be held accountable in elections for this chaos and loss of life.

The rest of the world is cracking on, it is only a few countries scoring points and playing the games that the gravity of the situation seems entirely lost on them. In any other accountable country, VDL would have been sacked ages ago! How is she still in a job?! Who would sack her even?

It is a joke, but with the most awful consequences for normal people, that deserve much better.

I do not see any bickering within the EU. I see a lot of anti EU sentiment the UK mostly brought about by the UK media. Much of what is happening in Europe is negatively portrayed in the UK media so I cannot blame you for your viewpoint.

EU member states have received 62.2 million vaccines under the joint procurement scheme run by Brussels and administered 77 per cent of those – about 48 million shots. About 14.8 million AstraZeneca vaccines have been delivered to EU countries, with less than half, 7.3 million, being used

It’s quite clear this is more anti EU sentiment from the British media. I know this is difficult for you to understand but not everything is about the U.K.’ for an Imperialist country you have a real complex thinking everyone is out to get you. Why on earth would the EU sabotage their already stalling vaccination programs just because what? They’re jealous the U.K. has sped ahead with vaccines... get a grip! You don’t realise how led you are by your media.

In terms of the share of AZ given out in the EU the blood clotting has emerged as a problem. Vaccinations of AZ have been paused to investigate. All very sensible. Likely that the green light will be given to start vaccinating again using AZ by the end of this week. It’s good they are being thorough.

AZ are not the main vaccine being used by many EU countries. So vaccinations are still continuing with other vaccines.

@Evanna13 it's hard not to be cross when head of EU is bad mouthing our vaccine rollout. She seems to have gone quiet now but has been pretty rude. I think it's sad the EU (and Canada) are so slow as it will save lives and get the world out of this mess. So whatever vaccine you use please hurry up and shove it in arms.

Much of what is happening in Europe is negatively portrayed in the UK media so I cannot blame you for your viewpoint.

It’s not so much this. We get spokespeople from Germany and France who also, for example, express concern that uptake is low (a few weeks ago - German vaccine task force), French person yesterday on pause issue. Plus JCVI person today.

It’s not the media so much, ie print headlines - but more expert views informing this. Do you think they are not capturing it accurately?

@Downinahole so why is Europe so slow ? Is it lack of supplies or method of roll out ? Genuinely would like to know as it's hard to understand why it's taking so long.

Merkel's government are now 'at war' over the chaos that is now engulfing Germany over the political decision to discredit Oxford AZ. There is not a shred of evidence to support the suspension of this vaccine, and the EMA have just confirmed there approval of the vaccine yesterday.

It is chilling to read that the EMA have come under pressure from 'powerful' governments within the EU, and have had to state publicly that they are independent and will follow the science.

That says it all.

@mumsneedwine lack of supply for Q1.

[quote Downinahole]@mumsneedwine lack of supply for Q1.[/quote]
Which vaccine in which country?